mooge
Well-known
here I go again...
ok. how does the Zorki 4 compare to the Kiev 4 in terms of...
size?
noise?
weight?
build quality?
VF/RF brightness/eye relief (is it squinty)?
frame spacing issues/grinding noises on film advance? (no, I don't know how to load the Kiev... I cheated and used a bit of wire...)
why? well, I might look for a (probably busted) Zorki 3m/4, and it would be pointless if it had all the things I hate about the Kiev. will have to sell some junk first though...
cheers.
ok. how does the Zorki 4 compare to the Kiev 4 in terms of...
size?
noise?
weight?
build quality?
VF/RF brightness/eye relief (is it squinty)?
frame spacing issues/grinding noises on film advance? (no, I don't know how to load the Kiev... I cheated and used a bit of wire...)
why? well, I might look for a (probably busted) Zorki 3m/4, and it would be pointless if it had all the things I hate about the Kiev. will have to sell some junk first though...
cheers.
Kozhe
Well-known
Hi,
I have both (Kiev 4a from 1960 and a export version Zorki 4 from 1972) and for me the Kiev is the winner.
The only reasson I might prefer the Zorki is because it´s ltm and I have other Zorkis and Leicas so I can change lenses. Besides that:
- The Zorki is a bit taller, both of them as wide and deep.
- The Kiev rf is a lot better. Mine is perfectly clear and bright, while I had to put a little piece of black tape on the Zorki left window to increase contrast. Moreover the Kiev is a lot more precise since it has wider window distance.
- The Kiev VF fits and feels better. Personal taste I guess.
- I have to cla my Zorki shutter, ok, but the Kiev is by far the quietest shutter I have. More than my Leica III or any of my Ms. When I let my friends shoot it all of them think something´s wrong in there.
- The Zorki is harder and ruder to wind on, but as said it needs a bit of cleaning and lube. The Kiev is doing pretty fine at this point any way.
- People say the Kievs have some serious frame spacing problems. Mine´s doing fine.
- Overall, I feel the Kiev is better built and better designed. Well, I mean copied
What I do hate about my Kiev is that the frame reminder moves really easy, but it´s just a ticky thing and I guess easy to solve.
Maybe you didn´t have any luck with your Kiev. Maybe you´ll love the Zorki. You can get both of them really cheap (I paid like 60€ for my Kiev, you can get it for less, and something like 25€ shipment included for the Zorki) so it really worths having both and judging yourself.
Honestly, I have too much cameras right now, not only FSU but an M2, M3 and M4, and my favorite, not the best but the one I feel better with, is the Kiev. Just a personal opinion for sure.
Hope this helps Oh, and let me know if you sell some FSU stuff!
I have both (Kiev 4a from 1960 and a export version Zorki 4 from 1972) and for me the Kiev is the winner.
The only reasson I might prefer the Zorki is because it´s ltm and I have other Zorkis and Leicas so I can change lenses. Besides that:
- The Zorki is a bit taller, both of them as wide and deep.
- The Kiev rf is a lot better. Mine is perfectly clear and bright, while I had to put a little piece of black tape on the Zorki left window to increase contrast. Moreover the Kiev is a lot more precise since it has wider window distance.
- The Kiev VF fits and feels better. Personal taste I guess.
- I have to cla my Zorki shutter, ok, but the Kiev is by far the quietest shutter I have. More than my Leica III or any of my Ms. When I let my friends shoot it all of them think something´s wrong in there.
- The Zorki is harder and ruder to wind on, but as said it needs a bit of cleaning and lube. The Kiev is doing pretty fine at this point any way.
- People say the Kievs have some serious frame spacing problems. Mine´s doing fine.
- Overall, I feel the Kiev is better built and better designed. Well, I mean copied
What I do hate about my Kiev is that the frame reminder moves really easy, but it´s just a ticky thing and I guess easy to solve.
Maybe you didn´t have any luck with your Kiev. Maybe you´ll love the Zorki. You can get both of them really cheap (I paid like 60€ for my Kiev, you can get it for less, and something like 25€ shipment included for the Zorki) so it really worths having both and judging yourself.
Honestly, I have too much cameras right now, not only FSU but an M2, M3 and M4, and my favorite, not the best but the one I feel better with, is the Kiev. Just a personal opinion for sure.
Hope this helps
Oh, and let me know if you sell some FSU stuff!
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W
wlewisiii
Guest
Well, I'm not really sure how to answer you as I consider the Kiev to be the best of the FSU 35mm cameras in almost all of those things and the areas that are problems are reasonably easy to fix. I doubt that you'll be happy with any FSU camera, though honestly a FED 5b would probably be closest to meeting those criteria. Fugly? To be sure, but it's as reliable as it gets from the FSU, has an acceptable VF and I got very good photos out of the ones I've owned in the past. Plus the I-61L/D is an excellent lens.
Realistically, it sounds to me more like you need a camera you can trust without having to putz with it. Now you've got a excellent SLR it would appear. Depending on what lenses you own, perhaps you should simply invest in some more nice Canon glass? I might have a couple of third party wides you can have for that matter.
As for a rangefinder, you need to answer a couple of questions:
Budget?
Meter built in?
Interchangeable lenses?
Reliability?
Once you can answer these, then we can get down to brass tacks.
William
Realistically, it sounds to me more like you need a camera you can trust without having to putz with it. Now you've got a excellent SLR it would appear. Depending on what lenses you own, perhaps you should simply invest in some more nice Canon glass? I might have a couple of third party wides you can have for that matter.
As for a rangefinder, you need to answer a couple of questions:
Budget?
Meter built in?
Interchangeable lenses?
Reliability?
Once you can answer these, then we can get down to brass tacks.
William
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xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
size wise, there is not much difference.
noise, the Z4 can be noisier
weight, not much difference.
build QC, early Kiev were better, same with the Zorki 4, but each model should be judged on an individual basis regardless.
VF/rf, you cannot beat a Kiev rf for accuracy, but the Zorki 4 VF is a bright joy to use and the built in diopter is a god send for someone with bad eye sight.
mh2000
Well-known
The Zorki VF is 1:1 and wonderfully bright... one of the best ever IMO. Zorki is lighter and feels more comfortable in your hand. Build quality is better for the Kiev and the Kiev is quieter, but heavier. Zorki doesn't have that annoying infinity lock (and uses more common LTM lenses). Slow speeds seem to be an issue with the Zorki... mine is missing 1/60th which is a major problem. I sold my Kiev and kept the Zorki... just have to find the time to get it working correctly...
blazejs
Established
Well, I used to have both. Kiev was sold some years ago but still have Zorki 4. So..
As far as I remember Kiev is bigger than Zorki. VF of Zorki 4 is surely bigger than in Kiev. But as far as I remember focusing spot in Kiev was more contrasty.
Construction of Kiev is much more complicated, especially shutter. This means Kiev is more prone to mechanical damage. My Kiev had problems with frames spacing. Zorki has not, but it has something stranger - frames are rotated a little bit, perhaps due to troubles with film transport (I never had such trouble in any of my FEDs).
In USSR Kievs were considered as professional while Zorkis as amateur cameras.
As far as I remember Kiev is bigger than Zorki. VF of Zorki 4 is surely bigger than in Kiev. But as far as I remember focusing spot in Kiev was more contrasty.
Construction of Kiev is much more complicated, especially shutter. This means Kiev is more prone to mechanical damage. My Kiev had problems with frames spacing. Zorki has not, but it has something stranger - frames are rotated a little bit, perhaps due to troubles with film transport (I never had such trouble in any of my FEDs).
In USSR Kievs were considered as professional while Zorkis as amateur cameras.
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
As you see in my signature I have a lot of Zorkis and two Kievs. I almost never shoot with the Kievs because as with contax I find it more bulky (and heavy) and prefer the round shapes of the zorki's and leica's in my hands (and I also like to use the Leitz lenses on the zorki's). But honestly, the kievs shutter is more quiet. .....Since the Z4 (and Z4k) costs almost nothing, just take one to compare.... Further, it is hard to repare a broken kiev shutter...
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mooge
Well-known
all my lenses are borrowed (except a 50 1.8)- if you have things to give away...
realistically- only a Leica or CV would satisfy my needs, but I don't have the cash for one. maybe in ten years...
the thing that (now) draws me to the Zorki though is the VF- I hate the Kiev's, it's dark and squinty, if the Zorki's is brighter or less squinty, I'd probably be happier.
oh yeah- shutter release- is the Zorki's smooth? my Kiev has a jagged release stroke-probably not so good for low light.
thanks!
MIkhail
-
Hi,
I have both (Kiev 4a from 1960 and a export version Zorki 4 from 1972) and for me the Kiev is the winner.
The only reasson I might prefer the Zorki is because it´s ltm and I have other Zorkis and Leicas so I can change lenses. Besides that:
- The Zorki is a bit taller, both of them as wide and deep.
- The Kiev rf is a lot better. Mine is perfectly clear and bright, while I had to put a little piece of black tape on the Zorki left window to increase contrast. Moreover the Kiev is a lot more precise since it has wider window distance.
- The Kiev VF fits and feels better. Personal taste I guess.
- I have to cla my Zorki shutter, ok, but the Kiev is by far the quietest shutter I have. More than my Leica III or any of my Ms. When I let my friends shoot it all of them think something´s wrong in there.
- The Zorki is harder and ruder to wind on, but as said it needs a bit of cleaning and lube. The Kiev is doing pretty fine at this point any way.
- People say the Kievs have some serious frame spacing problems. Mine´s doing fine.
- Overall, I feel the Kiev is better built and better designed. Well, I mean copied
What I do hate about my Kiev is that the frame reminder moves really easy, but it´s just a ticky thing and I guess easy to solve.
Maybe you didn´t have any luck with your Kiev. Maybe you´ll love the Zorki. You can get both of them really cheap (I paid like 60€ for my Kiev, you can get it for less, and something like 25€ shipment included for the Zorki) so it really worths having both and judging yourself.
Honestly, I have too much cameras right now, not only FSU but an M2, M3 and M4, and my favorite, not the best but the one I feel better with, is the Kiev. Just a personal opinion for sure.
Hope this helps
I have asked this question in different thread, but with no answer. Maybe you can tell me.
Zorki does not have white lines in the viewfinder to show the edges of the frame, in other words all that you see is the frame. I hate that. Does Kiev have frame lines? I realize that it would not be parallax adjusted, but at least I would know the edges of the frame... If not, which FSU RF does have them?
Thanks!
mooge
Well-known
to my knowledge, only the Kiev 5 has framelines- one actually, 50mm.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
The only FSU cameras with framelines are the Kiev 5, Drug/Droug, & Leningrad. All three of which have significant drawbacks. Of them, if you get a post 1972 Kiev 5 with the Jupiter 8 lens and the 85mm frame lines, you have the most useful (ed: the outside of the VF equals the 35mm FOV). But it's a big heavy fugly monster that makes a normal Kiev seem positivly petite. OTOH, I owned and used a Kiev 5 daily for quite sometime and enjoyed it. Selling it was a fairly large mistake...
William
William
MIkhail
-
MIkhail
-
Thank you !
blazejs
Established
VF in Zorki is bigger.. But in Kiev it's easier to focus. More contrasty spot and longer rangefinder base. VF in Bessa R is much bigger and brighter than in Zorki. Even VF in my fixed lens Ricoh 35 L is bigger (but spot is worse, and so is the lens).
Anyway I still have temptation to get a Kiev again ;-)
breathstealer
Established
Perhaps you should consider a Canon? A working Canon body in ugly condition isn't worth much more than a couple tries at Russian roulette.
fanshaw
Well-known
The Sokol and Sokol 2 have frame lines in the viewfnder, so does the Zorki-10. These cameras have fixed lenses, so no need to buy more expensive additional lenses!
blazejs
Established
Well, but Zorki 10 is aperture priority as far as I know and there's selenium lightmeter so this might give wrong exposures.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
The Fed-11 has framelines (IIRC) and interchangeable lenses.
Well at least you can exchange the Industar-61 for another Industar-61.
ki_
Member
Mine was like that as well. But when I took off the viewfinder Windows and cleaned them
(front and back – thats not a big deal. On the front you need to take off six screws plus the one under the letherette at the timer-release, on the back you have to push a screwdriver carfully under the round ring to pull it out)
my Viewfinder got really bright and nice to look through.
I advise you to try it out. Here is a good description of taking off the front cover:
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/helical remove.html
Dont do the whole process, only the first few steps.
Good luck - and please tell, if this solved your problems with the kiev.
Besides: I've never earned so little money into a camera like the Kiev, and also I never got so much satisfaction with one - so far.
Rey
Well-known
I have both and:
The Kiev has much better build quality, a more accurate rangefinder, an nicer finish, etc., but---
It has a dismally dim viewfinder, you must have excellent vision to enjoy the camera. No glasses here.
The Zorki is constructed ok, but it has an excellent 1:1 bright finder, if you wear glasses, this is the one for you, otherwise go with the Kiev.
The Kiev has much better build quality, a more accurate rangefinder, an nicer finish, etc., but---
It has a dismally dim viewfinder, you must have excellent vision to enjoy the camera. No glasses here.
The Zorki is constructed ok, but it has an excellent 1:1 bright finder, if you wear glasses, this is the one for you, otherwise go with the Kiev.