Kiev 4a problem with outher bay focusing

[Eugen Mezei]

Hello!

Finally I bought a Kiev 4a. Was looking for a Contax-Kiev for some years, I even piled up a J-12, two J-9 and a J-11 in advance for the future body buying.
Shutter seems to be accurate, rangefinder also at first sight. The silver J-8M is a bit stiff.

My problem is that all lenses using the external mount become very stiff in the range 2-2,5 m. Single exception is the J-11 but this is the most weared lens of the collection. Also no problem at all with the inner bay mounting J-8M.

What could this be? They fairly easy to focus off the body in the entire range. Mounted on the body they focus with the same easiness as offbody except the range 2-2,5m.

Any idea what this could be?

Eugen

 

[acheyj]

Guday Eugen,
Are you trying to focus the lens (other than the J-8 50mm normal) with the little toothed gear wheel ?.
My understanding is one should not use the finger wheel for focussing the wide angle lens, may cause damage, focus by using the lens barrel. I am not sure abt the tele lens, sure somebody will know.
I have 4 Kievs and all behave as you describe with the wide angle lens 100% ok with J-8, I have the info in a manual somewhere, right now no time to check.

cheers
ron

 

[fanshaw]

It is not recommended to use the focussing wheel with any of the lenses that use the external mount. In other words, the focussing wheel is for the J8 or Helios 103 only.

 

[Joao]

Hi
I have the same problem focusing a new J-12 lens, at close range, in my Kiev-4 body from 1964. No problem at all using the same lens in the 1980 Kiev 4AM. I've heard several people complaining also about this incompatibility. Please let us know if you find a solution.
Regards
Joao

 

[Eugen Mezei]

I focus the 50 mm by the wheel, but it works without problems also when focused by the barrel. All the other ones I focus by their barrel but when doing so the wheel also moves.

I will look at the exact year of the camera and the production years and manufacturers of the lenses.

Eugen
(going sick of this FSU garbage)

 

[gorbas]

Hi Guys,
I just bought additional lenses for my Kiev 4A from 1962 and have similar problem with focusing with Jupiter 12.
There is list of my Kiev stuff:
Jupiter 12, mint; 1986 vintage,
Jupiter 11, well used; from 1963, and
Jupiter 9, used, from 1958
It looks like I only have problem with J 12 adjusting distances.
When I mount lens on camera (both lens and camera body distance scale set to infinity) it’s very hard to focus between 3m to 1.7m. From infinity to 4m is very nice and smooth move and then easy again from 1.7 to 0.9 meters when focusing with lens body.
To move focusing ring from 3 to 1,7 m requires more force than I’m comfortable with. I tried same lens on different Kiev bodies with same result (they all were similar vintage).
Lens itself is focusing smoothly when is not mounted on the body.
Also, Jupiter 12 lens bayonet “lock” doesn’t fully lock on the body.
With my other J 9 & 11 I don’t have similar problems.
Any idea how I can improve focusing action with Jupiter 12??

Thank you in advance!
Goran

 

[Spider67]

Seems to be the curse of the later J12's.
I have a Kiev 4a from the 60's and a black J 12 of later vintage and it's a pain to mount it.
No problem with the 80's Kiev 4AM (there the camera is the problem).
So there seems to be an internal change.

 

[gorbas]

Thank you for your reply Spider76!
I think I will need to send my whole Kiev package for CLA!
Gorbas

 

[ruben]

Hi folks,

The Kiev rangefinder cameras are perhaps the ones with the best home repair back up website in the world, the Kiev Survival Site.

http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/index.html

In my opinion the problems you all are facing is dirty lens mount helical of the camera body:
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/helical%20clean.html

Now I will explain why I think so. The Kievs and Contaxes are fully mechanical mechanisms, but mechanisms brought to the highest possible acuracy levels. They were designed in Germany to excell in accuracy results, and to achieve it they carry a complex series of gears requiring accurate fitting between themselves.

True that most Kievs and Contaxes being sold are faulty, with hardened grease from decades ago, disaligned rangefinders and hard to twist winding wheels. All this together may make in our minds the illusion this is the way more or less the camera works, but this is only a circumstancial illusion.

Any Kiev, after getting what it should and explained at the Kiev Survival Site, should render an unmatched feeling of smoothness in every single action, not to speak about top silent shutter operation, or highest mechanical accuracy. This is the way the cameras were designed to work.

Therefore, if the outer mount twists hard, and the 50mm lens feels as with a bit of sand, or anything else that is not a heaven pleasure, the reason is no mistery at all: dirt

In other words, this is not a camera whose helical mount should rotate "somehow", but a camera whose helical should provoke pleasure to the hands while rotating. And if not the authopsy is well known and cathegoric: dirt.

And this means that while the standard lens will rotate, somehow, lens mounting on the outer mount may find strong hardships here or there. That "here" or "There" is the most dirty area inside the thin helical groves.

Dirt in the Kievs and Contaxes, is the same mixture of old hardened grease plus plain dirt that you find in any old camera. But while most of old cameras are simple mechanism providing simple results, the Kievs and Contaxes were designed to fine grain and no tolerance for anything that is not the highest level of Cleaning, re-Lubrication and re-Adjusting.

Follow the KSS, or send your camera to Eddie Smolov hospital if you live in the USA. You can also forget about the Kievs and Contaxes and there will be nothing wrong with that.

Cheers,
Ruben