colyn
ישו משיח
I have seen several posts regarding film spacing issues with the Kiev camera and was wondering if this issue also affects the early Kievs such as Kiev 2/2a, 3/3a?
My 4a does not seem to have this problem.
My 4a does not seem to have this problem.
brachal
Refrigerated User
colyn said:I have seen several posts regarding film spacing issues with the Kiev camera and was wondering if this issue also affects the early Kievs such as Kiev 2/2a, 3/3a?
My 4a does not seem to have this problem.
My 2a does it. Not a problem on a 24 exposure roll, but I think I'd have overlap on a 36.
colyn
ישו משיח
brachal said:
Maybe I'm lucky since my 4a does not have the frame spacing problem. I hope it keeps working right.
Xmas
Veteran
Kiev II (and '48) use the same clutch and gears as the Contax II used, too much or too little use and you have a problem, if you get torn sproket holes after 24 frames you need to address problem. otherwise I'd ignore.
Noel
Noel
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
I don't know about early Kievs, but my 79 4a did have spacing problems. It does not have an original take up spool so that might have been part of the problem. I now get evenly spaced frames, 24 on a 24 exp. roll, with the nonoriginal take-up spool. I did a quick clean up of the friction clutch pieces and put it back together dry minus one spacer. Maybe I just got lucky but it works.
Bob
Bob
Xmas
Veteran
Bill
Bob is correct and it is not complicated to do, if you can note the order of parts.
One only needs to remove the scew coaxial with the forks of the take up spool and withdraw this screw, washer, fork etc.
The gear wheel driving the forks is held in place (sort off) and should not dissappear into camera.
The clutch action is friction and is driven (controlled) by the spring and washers which drops out with the forks, altering the spring length is diffiuclt without a vice and removing a washer is easier (and reversible). Note the sequence of each part on a notebook with pencil, text and drawing, in addition to dig photo if you can.
But unless you have damaged sprocket holes I'd ignore, if the spacing upsets the automated processing it is a more difficult decision, buying another Kiev may be easier.
Noel
If you have a later camera you will have to remove the three screws to drop the fixed take up spool first, stick the screws to pressure sensitive tape attached to camera, and work over a deep tray.
Bob is correct and it is not complicated to do, if you can note the order of parts.
One only needs to remove the scew coaxial with the forks of the take up spool and withdraw this screw, washer, fork etc.
The gear wheel driving the forks is held in place (sort off) and should not dissappear into camera.
The clutch action is friction and is driven (controlled) by the spring and washers which drops out with the forks, altering the spring length is diffiuclt without a vice and removing a washer is easier (and reversible). Note the sequence of each part on a notebook with pencil, text and drawing, in addition to dig photo if you can.
But unless you have damaged sprocket holes I'd ignore, if the spacing upsets the automated processing it is a more difficult decision, buying another Kiev may be easier.
Noel
If you have a later camera you will have to remove the three screws to drop the fixed take up spool first, stick the screws to pressure sensitive tape attached to camera, and work over a deep tray.
colyn
ישו משיח
Nikon Bob said:
A lot of camera repairmen ignore the clutch when doing a CLA. I wonder if that may be part of the spacing problem many have with this camera.
The first thing I did when I got my 4a was to do a complete CLA including stripping down the clutch assembly and cleaning it.
I have not noticed any frame spacing issues with it thus far.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
colyn said:
You may have a good point there and from my own single experience I would try and clean the friction clutch pieces but NOT lube them. If I can do it anyone can do it. It is worth the 1/2 hour, or so, that it would take.
Bob
fidget
Lemon magnet
One of mine does this too. I cannot see any signs of damage to the sprocket holes of the film near where the frames have overlapped. As has been said here before, it's the toothed sprocket which determines how much film is pulled from the cassette, the winding spool is there simply to take up the slack film coming off the sprockets.
Whilst reading the comments about the success of making the clutch easier, this would seem to be the opposite of what logically appears to happen. If the film is fed ok up to a point, say 24 frames, then plays up. At this point there is less 'pull' exerted on the film that there was when at frame 1 because the winding spool now has a thickness of several mm of film wound up, so reducing the tension on the film at which the clutch will slip.
Very puzzling. My next move is to go with the accepted best shot, which is an original spool and less clutch tension....but as Noel suggested in an earlier post, I'm going to use scrap film marked through the aperture with a marker pen. Maybe tonight.
Whilst reading the comments about the success of making the clutch easier, this would seem to be the opposite of what logically appears to happen. If the film is fed ok up to a point, say 24 frames, then plays up. At this point there is less 'pull' exerted on the film that there was when at frame 1 because the winding spool now has a thickness of several mm of film wound up, so reducing the tension on the film at which the clutch will slip.
Very puzzling. My next move is to go with the accepted best shot, which is an original spool and less clutch tension....but as Noel suggested in an earlier post, I'm going to use scrap film marked through the aperture with a marker pen. Maybe tonight.
fidget
Lemon magnet
Well, that was easy!
I wound a few turns of old film onto the spool, then taped on the end of a 36exp film. I wound the film on frame by frame exposing on the 'B' setting and through the lens mount hole, marking the sides of each frame with a marker pen, looks a bit like the mark of Zorro! So I wound to the end of the film where I stripped the sprocket holes in my enthusiasm. The marks on the film show a little extra space between frames for the first 4 or 5 frames then it settled down to a regular gap which looks to be more than I last had (but it's possible that the marker didn't get right into the corner of the frame aperture). Dead even to the end of the film which must have represented around 40 frames.
...........I rewound and ran the film past again, this time just looking at where the frame markings appeared. Again a little variable for the first few frames then quite even to the end of the film.
...........Once more, this time (after the first few) noting where the frame lines (the mark of Zorro) were, then changing speeds as I ran through the film. Near the end of the film I changed back to B and saw that the frame lines were where I had seen earlier in the film.
Looks real good, but was this a good test? About as good as I can rig up without actually exposing film. I now wish that I had tried this before I had made the changes, this could have confirmed that this was a fix. For now I guess that i will have to shoot more film.
One other thing is for sure...my thumb is sore!
Dave...
I wound a few turns of old film onto the spool, then taped on the end of a 36exp film. I wound the film on frame by frame exposing on the 'B' setting and through the lens mount hole, marking the sides of each frame with a marker pen, looks a bit like the mark of Zorro! So I wound to the end of the film where I stripped the sprocket holes in my enthusiasm. The marks on the film show a little extra space between frames for the first 4 or 5 frames then it settled down to a regular gap which looks to be more than I last had (but it's possible that the marker didn't get right into the corner of the frame aperture). Dead even to the end of the film which must have represented around 40 frames.
...........I rewound and ran the film past again, this time just looking at where the frame markings appeared. Again a little variable for the first few frames then quite even to the end of the film.
...........Once more, this time (after the first few) noting where the frame lines (the mark of Zorro) were, then changing speeds as I ran through the film. Near the end of the film I changed back to B and saw that the frame lines were where I had seen earlier in the film.
Looks real good, but was this a good test? About as good as I can rig up without actually exposing film. I now wish that I had tried this before I had made the changes, this could have confirmed that this was a fix. For now I guess that i will have to shoot more film.
One other thing is for sure...my thumb is sore!
Dave...
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Dave
I did as you did. My first roll shot in the camera came back with spacing problems showing on the developed negs. I then tinkered and checked with the method you used. The test looked good so I shot a rol and the developed negs showed even spacing. The next few rolls will tell if it holds. Let us know how you make out.
Bob
I did as you did. My first roll shot in the camera came back with spacing problems showing on the developed negs. I then tinkered and checked with the method you used. The test looked good so I shot a rol and the developed negs showed even spacing. The next few rolls will tell if it holds. Let us know how you make out.
Bob