kiev light leak.

[fidget]

Hi, here is a scan of a neg from my Kiev. This is one of a few sections that I ran through the camera without exposing (via the lens). So, any marks here will be caused by light ingress by routes other than the lens. I am a little puzzled by this one as it seems that the highest concentration of light is at the sprockets, as if it is coming from the inside of the camera. Light getting down from the top? Any ideas?

Dave

 

[Screwy]

The Kiev survival site has a good section on fixing light leaks 🙂




Paul

 

[Xmas]

Dave
Where is the link?
There is an ingress route via the sprocket cut outs or from just above the top sprocket. The paper over the shutter cover, the paper behind the rangefinder right hand 90 degree prism and the cute little spring steel stamping all need to be in good condition...
Noel

 

[physiognomy]

... I am a little puzzled by this one as it seems that the highest concentration of light is at the sprockets, as if it is coming from the inside of the camera. Light getting down from the top? Any ideas? Dave

From working inside a Kiev I can see how this would be possible if the light seals have deteriorated or moved out of place. I second Paul's advice about looking up the instructions on Russ' Kiev survival site. It's an amazing resource!

Peter

 

[Xmas]

Dave

Sorry the link seems to have appeared. You seem to have print through a layer of film towards the bottom of the scan.

You may have two leaks...

Have you got an intact spring in the take up chamber?

Noel

 

[Duncan Ross]

Can I ask is this a Kiev 4M/AM or an earlier Kiev? The pushbutton film release in the baseplate can be a source of light in earlier Kievs.

 

[fidget]

Ah yes, I should have said, it's a Kiev 4a. I will open it up to look for these parts.
This is my 4th Kiev. I seem to have less luck with Kievs than LTM FSU sets.

 

[fidget]

Dave

Sorry the link seems to have appeared. You seem to have print through a layer of film towards the bottom of the scan.

You may have two leaks...

Have you got an intact spring in the take up chamber?

Noel

I don't want to be greedy, one leak will do, thanks!

what spring, the one that tensions the film on the spool?

 

[Xmas]

Dave

There is a large spring on each of the feed cassette and take up spool (or take up cassette) chamber. I think these locate the cassettes. People remove them and leave off the screws and light might leak into the take up spool area, through the leatherette...

I dont see how you are getting print through otherwise. Unless you have a leak via the back right hand side seal.

Noel

 

[fidget]

Thanks Noel,
both the strip springs are in place. It's really complete and near mint (except for the slight fact that it don't work, but that's the fun with FSU, apparently)
Don't the marks on the neg look like they came from behind the sprockets? A quick look at the Kiev survival site kindly linked above, shows lots of light trap checks to be made in this area.

 

[Xmas]

Dave

I have to use chrome film to be sure of which direction the light is leaking from.

But if you look at the 1st intact sproket hole from bottom it has an image of a hole above and below it. This seems to indicate that this leak occured when the film was on the take up spool and shielded by a second layer of film?

So you have 360 degrees it could have come from (almost) on the take up spool.

But you may have two leaks as I cannot see of a simple mechanism for the total effect.

All I can suggest is try with the camera in a case with some wool or cloth stuffed down the top and sides of the case. If this alters the leak you dont have to strip the camera just play with the back sealing.

Noel

 

[40oz]

Noel,
I have a similar leaks (print-through), just on the sprocket holes only. A Kiev take-up spool should eliminate this until I can fix it properly, correct?

 

[Xmas]

40oz

I'm not sure what is causing your and Daves (print through) problem, it is one of the few problems I seem to have missed.
If this occurs in a 4am I am even more curious and bemused, I think I detect you have two Kievs?
I dont think it can depend on the take up spool but a Kiev concentric cassette used on on the take up side should eliminate it unless it was along the cassette film slot path. A concentric cassette would be an excellent diagnostic for Dave if he had one, pending a real fix, excellent suggestion.
One query how does the leak vary along the film, do you get multiple sprocket holes printed part way into the film?

Noel

 

[Duncan Ross]

I've got one last idiot question. Are the leaks present throughout the film (when the bottom half of the case is always on)?

Thanks!

 

[40oz]

40oz

I'm not sure what is causing your and Daves (print through) problem, it is one of the few problems I seem to have missed.
If this occurs in a 4am I am even more curious and bemused, I think I detect you have two Kievs?
I dont think it can depend on the take up spool but a Kiev concentric cassette used on on the take up side should eliminate it unless it was along the cassette film slot path. A concentric cassette would be an excellent diagnostic for Dave if he had one, pending a real fix, excellent suggestion.
One query how does the leak vary along the film, do you get multiple sprocket holes printed part way into the film?

Noel

Yeah, I have a 4 and a 4a (with, and without meter.) Neither are the newer "M" versions. I haven't developed any from the 4A yet, but I've seen some evidence of leakage on what I think is called the rebate on the one with the meter. It doesn't intrude into the frames, so I let it go. It does show evidence of light shining through the sprocket holes in multiple layers, just like the original post, which leads me to believe we have a similar problem. If it is fixable, I figure I might as well fix it.

I am not really sure it is from the camera, as I use a bulk roller. I figured it could be from either the cassettes, the roll in the bulk roller somehow got exposed a tiny bit, or, after seeing the original poster's scans maybe the camera is the culprit. I had the infinite wisdom to order a few Kiev cassettes last week, so I'll see if they fix the problem, then I'll know if I should make an effort to seal the camera. I just didn't know where to start until now.

 

[Xmas]

Dave & 40oz
Looked at a 4am and it had aperatures around the sprocket drive shaft which could cause exposure directly on to the film and across the take up chamber (the latter to cause the sprocket hole print through).
Russ' site has nice instructions, suggest you need to think about the black paper over the shutter crate and the paper behind the rangefinder prism, either of these if damaged or missing could cause this problem, they are serial traps, the little metal spring also is needed in situ. I think Russ suggests black plastic but this may be more difficult to glue in place.
Happy Xmas
Noel

P.S. (edit) A concentric might help a little, as would keeping the lid of the ERC on as well.

 

[fidget]

Thanks Noel, Peter and all for your comments. I had resigned to battle with the leak some other day or even sell it, but today I had a few hours to spare so I went in. Just as described on Russ's site, the number 1 cause of leaks and as you have also said, the paper behind the prism was distorted. This could be easily seen when the top was off. So I've put it back in place, added foam to the places suggested at the top of the sprocket shaft and put new foam in place of the yak hair. I will try a few frames of incredibly cheap APX400s to look for leaks......only, something you pointed out, there could be two leaks, one printing through the film to the layer below. I hope they were from the same source.
These Kievs aren't all nice inside are they?

Dave....

 

[fidget]

Hi everyone. Just a quick post to update my progress on this problem. I ran another film through the camera. I left several frames unexposed and for each one gave the camera a good soaking in light. On the windowsill and under a spotlight for a couple of hours, toasting each side. The film is clear, so thanks to all who gave encouragement and suggestions and to Russ for his informative web how-to for this very problem. Now I can try to compare my H103, Menopta and Jupiter 8 lenses.

Dave....

 

[Xmas]

Dave

My (one) 103 has (detectably) better micro contrast than any of my J8 (it is similar to my post war sonnar), none (of the Ru lenses) have sufficient black paint internally but still seem to do well in high contrast situations.

Good luck with your testing.

Noel