Kiev rangefinders

[nicholas]

I'm interested in buying a Kiev rangefinder. In the opinion of all the knowledgable owners of these cameras what would you suggest? The model II, III or Four. Are the Fours inferior to the the II's and III's? Ideally I would like to get a Contax IIa or II, but finding a truly clean one at a reasonable price is difficult. Please don't ask me what is reasonable is, I don't know. I left film a few years ago and recently the urge to shoot black and white with a rangefinder has returned. That's the way it was for me for many years. I picked up a Contax G2 and four lenses and I'm hooked. But... a Contax has always existed in a corner of my mind. I'm hoping one of the Kiev's would fill the bill. Any advice greatly appreciated.
nicholas

 

[kmack]

I have Kiev's II, IIIa and 2 IV's. Most people will tell you that older is better. I am not sure that is completely true but as an axium it has held in my experience. They are fun cameras to use but be prepared to get into some camera repair.

Unless you want to start a collection, may I suggest you get a Kiev from Fedka. It will be a working camera with support behind it. Oleg would be another dealer but he is better with the Zorkie's and Feds. Other wise wait around here and check the classifieds. *Bay would be the last place to get one (been there, done that) if you want one in good working condition.

My IIIa is the best of the bunch, I bought it cheap on *Bay as a parts camera, but it was in such beautiful condition (I got real lucky) I could not bear to strip it., even then I had to canibalize one of my IV's to replace a missing screw under the winding knob.

The II is the most fun to carry around, but the focusing is tight on mine. It had sand in it at some time in the past and the gear to the heilcord is worn and pitted. I have it stripped down right to replace the focusing gears, fix some light leaks and align the rangefinder. It will be on the bench for a while as I have other non photo related projects that need attention.

The 1965 IV is waiting for a new back. (anyone with a parts IV that has a spare back please let me know).

The 1974 IV is being stripped for parts, It has back problems (bad latches) so I can't even use it to fix the other IV, It will donate it's focusing gears to the II (if they fit).

 

[dll927]

Any Kiev with a meter is probably going to have just some pretty decoration. They were selenium-cell meters that are long since not working. My recommendation would be to get a Kiev 4a - the model with no meter. I also happen to think they are nicer looking cameras.

It seems that the same feeling was true when Contaxes were current cameras.

One thing you have to watch with Contax/Kiev - they had metal "louvre=type" shutters with cloth strips that operated them, and they were known for going out of whack. It was sort of Contax's Achilles heel.

There's a Ukraine-born fellow in NYC that sells reconditioned Kievs. I won't try to duplicate his last name here, but the company site is www.fedka.com. He has a reputation for being very dependable. I've bought three FSU (former Soviet Union) cameras from him. In one case he even sent me two lenses, because he said the one on the camera I ordered had "slight cleaning marks" on it. He may be a little more expensive than what you'll find on evil-bay, but the dependability is probably worth it. He checks out the equipment and makes sure it works.

 

[tkluck]

http://www.fedka.com/

Good advice.
I bought a 4am on Ebay that works perfictly, but that was pure dumb luck in a crap shoot.

It did cure me of Contax fever, almost.

 

[Ash]

Contax? Reasonable?? No chance! 😀

Unless you have $500 to spend you won't get a good condition Contax.

Get a Kiev 2a or 4a. You'll have framespacing problems, and possible light leaks, but if you buy a good example from fedka you should be handling an excellent russian camera at a fair price.

I love my 4a, I bought it from Spark303 on this forum, my photo's of Amy B in my gallery were taken with it, as were a few others.

 

[varjag]

Unless you have $500 to spend you won't get a good condition Contax.

I got mine for $49 on ebay (winning bid of 7-day auction, not even at BIN) this May. It works, takes pictures and shutter is slide tested 🙂 Very brassed though, not a shelf queen, and I had to do a (simple) CLA myself. But while this price clearly an anomaly, it should be possible to secure a good Contax II for far less than $500.

Also, it seems that prices for Contax stuff are going down now.

 

[Ash]

I've seen one or two dodgy Contax's go cheap, but to be honest I'm going by the "I want to buy it in Good Working Condition" ethic, to which your budget has to be very high.

Kiev's have been going for more and more lately, maybe people are seeing how they're a good cheap alternative.

 

[varjag]

Even one in a good working condition shouldn't set back that much, unless you specifically look for one serviced by that repairsman 🙂

 

[Ash]

To be honest, with the cost of gambling with a purchase on the bay, and a CLA on top, I'd prefer to go down the route of buying from that repairsman to begin with 🙂

 

[varjag]

Well, I heard he does good job. Still it is possible to have a great user/collectible Contax specimen for half of that price, if you shop around. $500 is definitely above median.

 

[Ash]

I know Eugene, there's a "fully serviced" IIa body on ebay for £250... my leica lust beat me to that purchase tho. I'm still angry I have 2 Leica's and no Contax!!

 

[rxmd]

I'm still angry I have 2 Leica's and no Contax!!

No Angenieux lenses and no Contarex either. Tsk, tsk.

Philipp

 

[physiognomy]

Contax? Reasonable?? No chance! 😀 Unless you have $500 to spend you won't get a good condition Contax...

Fedka has a USER Contax III for $159 (click here)

I'm interested in buying a Kiev rangefinder. In the opinion of all the knowledgable owners of these cameras what would you suggest? The model II, III or Four. Are the Fours inferior to the the II's and III's?

I have only had my Kiev 2a for a few days now, so my comparisons are somewhat limited in experience... First I would suggest taking a look at as many Kievs as possible & deciding which one you like the look of (metered or unmetered). Many of the selenium meters will have gone dead by now, so it will most likely not be very useful. This is not always the case though as the meter on my Kiev 4 works pretty well for normal print film... I still don't trust it completely unless I forget to bring another meter, but it does work.

Next I would think about how much you are willing to pay... The older Kievs are getting more & more expensive because of their 'collectibility', but you have to decide whether you would prefer to put that $150-200 towards a Contax. If you go the Kiev route I would definitely back up the others above who have suggested you go through a seller with known credentials. Pay a little more for a better camera... it is easy to forget about paying $30-$50 more for a camera you love, but it sucks to have a paperweight lying around that you can't even use.

The other point you mention is deciding on a model. I have two Kievs - a '63 Black 4 and my 'new' 1956 Kiev 2a. I have also had the chance to play with a late Kiev 4am. I think in terms of build quality (assuming you have good working cameras) the older cameras are much better... Obviously this is no hard & fast rule, but I would try to get one built before 1975. I have read in multiple places that the Kievs with a 1/1000 top speed aren't as well built compared to the older models & from playing with a late 4am I would agree. They just seem 'rougher', but functional none the less. In the case of my two Keivs they are both smooth in terms of winding & the shutter gives a quiet, but deliberate & consistant 'shlick'. Another thing to think about is the rewind lever that only the latter Kiev 4(a)m cameras have... It did feel a little flimsy, but it would probably make rewinding the film a lot easier if you were careful with it.

... a Contax has always existed in a corner of my mind. I'm hoping one of the Kiev's would fill the bill. Any advice greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately I just found out that if anything, getting a nice Kiev will only make you want a Contax even more... It is inevitable!

Good luck with your choice!

Peter

 

[Ash]

That $159 has been calling to me, but they look fugly with the lightmeter, I want a Contax with sexy contors, meterless 🙂

 

[rxmd]

No Jupiter-12 on Contax [II|III]a, though, so you need a more expensive wideangle.

EDIT: Oh, it's a prewar non-a. Hm, hm.

Philipp

 

[physiognomy]

... I want a Contax with sexy contors, meterless 🙂

Oh, come on... the metered Contax/Kievs can be sexy... you just have to look beyond the 'hump'... 🙂

Peter

 

[Ash]

Sorry peter, a girl can be overweight and I can see the beauty, a puppy can take a crap and then look cute, but a kiev cannot look sexy like that, even en noir.

 

[physiognomy]

... different horses for different courses... 🙂 btw I actually prefer the unmetered models, but don't break any mirrors when I'm carrying the 4.

Peter

 

[rbiemer]

... but a kiev cannot look sexy like that, even en noir.

I used to think that, Ash, but then I got one and the meter isn't as huge as it seems in every photo of the metered Kievs I've ever seen.
That said, I do like my '67 4a the best of all.
And if I were to do it over, I would definitely buy from fedka! I've done a little business with him before(and will again!) and he is unfailingly helpful.
nicolas,
I can only echo the advise of the others here: get one from fedka(http://www.fedka.com) or Oleg(http://www.okvintagecameras.com) and you will be well served.
As to which one, well I have owned a 2a, a 4, and a 4a and they were all good. One slight advantage of the 2a is that it has a "foot" on the bottom which will help the camera sit flat when you put it down--and it looks pretty cool also! The meter on the 4 I had was fine but since I don't use Russian film, the conversion from GOST film speeds to ISO was a bit of a pain.Certainly not a deal breaker.
I've never owned a 4am but they just don't look as good to me as the earlier Kievs do.
I have been looking at the Kiev 5 lately but I'm haven't got one yet.
Welcome aboard, nicolas! And beware: there is an acronym you will soon enough run into; GAS which is Gear Acquisition Syndrome. A very few people seem to be immune but not most of us.
Rob

 

[David Murphy]

I bought an outstanding Contax IIa recently on eBay with an Opton 5cm F2 Sonnar (Red T). All in great shape save for a bit of rangefinder vertical misalignment (which I will get fixed, but does not seriously impact use). This cost me $190.

This is an extraordinarily low price, and I also admit that I was lurking around eBay for about 1.5 years trying to get one at a low price, and I did get lucky -- it was a buy-it-now auction for which the price was set too low.

I've owned the Kiev 4 as well, and while I know the Kiev 4 is a decent camera, the Contax IIa reminds me much more of a Leica M3 -- it is simply in that class or beyond -- in fact lighter, smaller, and more nimble that an M3, but with similar build quality -- it is a defining photographic instrument that really sets the bar, both now and when it was made.