Kiev shutter "thump".

[fidget]

I have a Kiev 4a which is a real nice user, a 79 version. I've probably shot only around 15 films with it (got others that need trying) and am growing accustomed to the grip, although the shutter operates with a bit of a thump. For a while I also had a 4a (73) which had (I thought) a terminal shutter fault as it could change speed from a fast speed to 1 sec, from time to time. Recently I had-to-have a Kiev 4 and snagged a very nice example (71) which is good but in need of a lube and clean.
After a week away on business and confined to my hotel room (and bar) , I did a CLA on the two in need of it. It was easier than I thought it would be and all now work very well (yet to check for light leaks). All the cameras have a similar shutter feel and noise.
I had recently received another (75) Kiev 4a which I didn't particularly want but was part of a bunch of stuff that I did. This turned out to be a bit of a shock as
(1) it was perfectly clean. (but the covering is peeling)
(2) the lens is perfect.
(3) the shutter operates well and may not even need a CLA.
(4) the shutter is noticably softer that the other 3 Kievs I have.

The shutter operation is fabulous! A lot less of a thump, more like the slick operation it should be. I checked the shutter times on the old monitor test and they are fine.
So, what's going on here? Can the others be made to be as soft?

Dave

 

[Ash]

Well I'd love to know too! Especially for my hedge clip-...zorki 😀

 

[fidget]

Ash, the Zorki/FED shutter curtains are probably the most variable I have come across. Whilst setting up the curtains on a few cameras I noticed an anomaly in the monitor shutter test which gave me a little puzzle for a while. I will work on some instructions soon to allow members to have a crack at theirs. My FED5 could chop carrots in half and is now a better tempered beast with a much softer shutter (but not as soft as this Kiev). One thing about most Zorki/FEDs is that although the shutter can be snappy, they don't have the kick that the Kiev can have, even though the Kiev is quieter.

 

[comp_wiz101]

The shutter on my Zorki 3 was way too tight when I got it, it had an extra 4 or 5 turns on the tensioner!

 

[colyn]

The shutter on my Zorki 3 was way too tight when I got it, it had an extra 4 or 5 turns on the tensioner!

I have a Fed 3 that is not capping properly and allows a bit of light through the curtains and was wondering since I am going to have to release the tension on the shutter and remove them in order to fix the problem do you or anybody know the initial tension when going back together.. Once I get that the rest is easy as far as adjusting the final shutter speeds.

 

[comp_wiz101]

Here's a great site on the subject: http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page510.htm

 

[w3rk5]

My 1964 Kiev 4 shutter has an intense "thump" also.

 

[Ash]

I'm not sure I want to botch my camera's though. Do you think Oleg can soften up that shutter sound?? I think they all need CLA's anyway.

 

[Xmas]

Fidget

My

contax '36 really quiet
kiev '63 hedge clip
kiev '72 quiet
kiev '84 hedge clip

The contax has different shutter stops but some kievs are quiet.

I've never tried to make one quieter if the shutter zings rether then flops I stop playing, the flops were quiet, but I've never tried to speed them up much beyond brushing on more Zippo fluid, I never use faster then 1/250, and the slow times are sufficiently good for chroms film.

Ive never stripped one unless it ripped perforations, or jammed solid. The hedge clippers are not good for covert photos they seem to be more noisy than an OM1.

Noel

 

[fidget]

Noel, seems you also have some variation in shutter performance. I am more concerned about the way that some of my Kievs "kick" when the shutter is released, making me wonder if this could spoil any shots because of the movement. I thought that they were all the same.
I recently had a couple of Kievs apart for a service. Each had a strip of cork like material on the bottom curtain, I guess that this is to absorb the impact of the curtain when it hits the stops. It is no surprise that this might have lost its springy nature with age.
Dave

 

[Xmas]

Fidget

I stand corrected, I did not read properly, sorry.

I have noticed the cork, but it might not be the age, as the '84 I have is newish, noisy and pristine, the quiet two are the '36 and '72, the '72 is in sad condition. I'll try some more bodies and report.

I'll see if I can detect any differences in torque and impulse. The 2nd curtain stopping (i.e. the hedge clip noise) is too late to affect sharpness as the blind is closed when the hedge gets clipped, It does distract is a quiet environment.

You can expect the Kiev or Contax to have more torque and impulse than a Leica, the fabric is lighter and accelerates over a longer path 36mm v 24mm, it is also braked. It is still possible to detect the impulse from both a III or M if one has small hands or does not grip the camera tight. A Nikon F jumps... A between the lens in a heavy 6x6 TLR is not noticable.

Noel

 

[fidget]

Noel, I think that you are right about a difference in the tension of the curtains. My quiet 75 model is a little slower as the gap travels across the film aperture. Maybe the curtains can have different spring tensions set? Stands to reason do you think?

Dave

 

[Xmas]

Fidget

I accept your submissions, I has already got similar evidence. We may be looking at mal-adjustment/grease symptoms

-----1/5 1/250
--noise imp noise impulse
'36 n n y n
'42 n n y y
'55 y s y y
'59 n n y s
'63 y s y s
'65 n n y s
'72 y n y s
'75 n n s s
'84 n n y n

key n = no y = yes s = slight

At 1/250 both blinds run together and may be more obvious, at 1/5 the escapments consume power.

Eventually I realised that there were (at least) two variables the spring pre-tension and the grease/glue, one camera not in above list flopped its shutter on any slow speed and the escapment meditated for about three seconds on 1/5, it did not have any noise or impulse.

So I suggest all you can do is use a brush & zippo fluid to remove as much grease as possible, apply PTFE liquid to thin any residue, and back off the pre-tension until speeds become marginal. You are only going to be worried about the leading blind at 1/5 and even the trailing was not too significant on any of these Kievs.

I did like the '75 before I tried the comparison.

The shutter pretension is adjustable please see Russ Pinchbeck's survivial site, but this is not independent unless you are willing to get into blacksmithing, not recommended. The blinds stops may also be attacked but I'd not recommend that either.

Noel

 

[Ducky]

My Kiev4 makes a soft whisper sound. My Fed 3 has a distinct but quiet snap sound.
Question: How do I determine what year these two cameras were made? I have been all over the web.
George

 

[FrankS]

George, for the Kiev, look no farther than the first 2 digits of the serial number.

 

[Ducky]

1961. Thanks, Frank.