Kiev- unlucky cameras? (Or I'll just stick to FED or Zorki)

Spyderman said:
Hi Jay,

........
But when you finally have a cleaned, lubed and low-tensioned Kiev, it's a great reliable camera. I believe even you can change your opinion on Kievs ;)
.............
Click to expand...


I am banging my pair of Kievs 4AM for four months already, day after day after day, and they only become sweeter and sweeter as grease expands and parts start to harmonize with each other. We are talking here about the cheapest Kiev !

The question Spyderman, is who is the seller who is going to perform the great CLA for sitemistic, and the answer is simple: no one. Not even Fedka. This is a problem when buying a Kiev.

Why no one is going to do the job nowadays ? Because, by my very rough estimation, a comprehensive job for an average eBay Kiev, needs some 50 neto hours to make them back "the jolie of England". 50 hours at $10 per hour = $500...

Hence that the $50 camera you are buying from eBay is just a 10th from what a Kiev can really be.

Any camera, including an old camera, is a sort of machine. A car too is a machine. You can buy a car from 20 to 40 years ago for penauts, with the seller guaranteing "the car travels". Fine the car "travels" indeed - yet how? how long ? What is the feeling when traveling with it?

But if you want to make a travel from coast to coast, or have this old car rendering its best, giving you its best performance, the car must be given a lot of restaurantion work. You can say, with justice, that for all the money the restauraton costs, better you buy a new one. That's fine too. But if you buy that old car you admire and have expectations it will work as new without paying for the restauration, or doing it yourself, there is no much sense to blame either the seller or the car brand. You have got what your have paid for.

On the other hand, owning and driving a very old car at its best, it is a luxury, only very rich folks can afford, or those with the knowledge hot to restaurate it themselves.
....

Now I have spoken about 50 hours/$500. I am very much aware that Mr Scherer and Mark Hama price lower prices than that, to work a Contax or a Yashica Lynx 14. Why is that ? I can only speculate.

My first suspiction is that without lowering the great quality of their work they have found techniques to shorten the total time of the process. My second suspiction is that they work at work pace, not like me at will. And my third suspiction, that I have repeated time and again, is that in order to survive in the offer and demmand market, they are underpricing their work.

Owning and using an old machine, is much of a luxury. Knowing its ribbs - a great convenience for the folk lacking the means to afford new expensive high quality cameras.
...

Now, kindly let me go for my last comarizon: the cute Canonet GIII. It sells at ebay by an average of $70. I own some 5 of them, so I can speak about a relative experience in purchasing them.

How many of them came without any problem ? None. How many of them do "travel", as like the example of the car ? 3, or 4 if we show great symphaty for the fourth example.

I am not knowledgeable of its mechanics or electronics, therefore the improvements I made were rather minimal. But we have among us a member highly knowledgeable of its ribbs: DMR.

How much is worth DMR's own Canonet ? I assume several hundred dollars.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Last edited by a moderator:
repair@camera-care.com

Steve Serota has been doing a lot of work for me lately, including an excellent Canon 0.95 conversion, and he repaired a Hasselblad for me. I've sent him a lot of work.

His work is fast and meticulous.

He's been advertising complete Kiev and Contax overhauls on eBay for $119 and he's very communicative and reliable.

http://cgi.ebay.com/HASSELBLAD-500-C-C-M-501C-503-CX-CXi-CW-REPAIR-OVERHAUL_W0QQitemZ290193400218


I also know the guy who Fedka uses for repair. He's a Russian guy who's been fixing cameras a long time. He's good too, but I feel that he tends to quickly dissemble the cameras he gets and just fixes the problem without going over everything, cleaning it up, etc. Steve Serota takes more time and disassembles the cameras, but also checks everything, cleans parts, glass and does a more complete overhaul.

I've also used DAG who did an excellent job for me aligning the rangefinder of an Epson R-D1, but he takes much longer to finish jobs.

Steve Serota and repairs through Fedka are much faster.

I don't know if I buy this "Henry Scherer" song and dance. I'm sure he's good but he might be too much like a boutique "carriage trade" guy who caters to nut cases.
 
Ruben, I am with you on this one. My perception of Kiev is as a high end camera in FSU kingdom. Kievs always were kind of elite cameras in USSR, partially due to Contax heritage, but partially due to their real merits. In 35mm format many professionals in USSR preferred kievs to other FSU cameras. I am biased - my grandpa was pro, his kiev still belongs to the family, and one day I willl have it CLAd (it has issue with rangefinder coupling to the lens after 3m). I have another pawnshop $20 kiev that works real good (after I figured out how to load it properly), though looks like it was through many wars and for sure never was CLAd. Bottom line - I appreciate kievs, and have memorable images shot with mine in family album.
 
This thread will not end without Zhang telling us about the Kiev 4 and Mao's wife (I suspect here was the begining of "The Gang Of The Four")

:)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kiev or Fed/Zorki

Kiev or Fed/Zorki

My experience with these cameras is that the old ones from between 1950 and 1957 are the best:eek: :eek: .The late Fed 5 and Fed 4, last Kiev's from the seventies are not as reliable !!:eek:
 
ruben said:
This thread will not end without Zhang telling us about the Kiev 4 and Mao's wife

:)
Click to expand...

Dear Ruben,

This time it was not his wife, but hismself was given a Kiev 4 as a state gift from one of the Soviet leaders. altough he passed the gift to his personal cook, it was still a state gift.:) When I heard the story in one of the pawnshops, I know I bought a high-end camera for $25, my very 1st Soviet camera, a mint 1965 Kiev 4.:D Then I examined the camera on spot and wondered why such a fine camera was sold so cheap? I even found the unique ox urine tanned leather smell quite pleasant since then.:bang:
 
I just shot my first roll through a 4am from Fedka with no problems. A sweet sound and proper frame spacing. Let's hope it stays that way.
 
I think I spoke too soon about the smoothness of my Kiev 4AM. After just 3 rolls of film it bit the dust. The shutter doesn`t work anymore and I fear ther straps are broken. The rangefinder doesn`t work anymore either.
I simply removed the front plate, then the lens mount, turned the focussing wheel maybe a little to far and then felt and sounded like the shutter breaking. I looked and found the shutter was partly closed but recocking it didn`t do anything. It just winds and winds without cocking.
To be honest I am not going to blame the camera for this as I probably should not have attempted to disassemble it for no reason.
I think my next step is to order a CLA`d 4A from Yuri at Fedka.
I`m willing to give the Kiev another try as I now have a parts camera.
John
 
Nah, let's downplay the Kiev's some more, keeps the price down for when mine starts having problems ;)

Btw, looks like I'm in the minority who has a perfectly functioning Kiev 4A. When it finally breaks down, I have Ruben's email in my contact list :D
 
I like my kiev and somewhat agree on ....

I like my kiev and somewhat agree on ....

Pitxu said:
Hi Igor, I agree with you and Ruben also. To me it's like maintaining a vintage car or motor-cycle, it's a real pleasure to tinker with a motor and drive it with pride.
Click to expand...

The vintage car analogy. However, once when trying to get my Norton Commando dialed in and running right, the engine backfired and the kickstart threw me off the bike. I had to go to the hospital emergency room to have my leg X-ray'd and examined.

Is there any chance that my Kiev will do bodily harm to me?
 
kuzano said:
The vintage car analogy. However, once when trying to get my Norton Commando dialed in and running right, the engine backfired and the kickstart threw me off the bike. I had to go to the hospital emergency room to have my leg X-ray'd and examined.

Is there any chance that my Kiev will do bodily harm to me?
Click to expand...


Yes there is, but unlike your Norton, a femme fatale like the Kiev may send you straight to the electric chair. See

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52212


Cheers,
Ruben
 
Pitxu - do you have an MZ motorbike ? I think they were made in Czechoslovakia (unless there is another MZ factory in East Germany of which I don't know).
 
Last edited:
The Czeck CZ was a popular enduro bike here in the early 70`s when I was riding a Kawasaki Big Horn F9. The 48th International 6 day trials were held here in 1973 in the nearby town of Dalton Massachusetts. I was there every day.(watching the races)
John
 
I've had > 10 Kievs.

I now have two working Kievs, and lots of spare parts. It feels funny throwing a camera out, but not so much the Kiev.

I really like the look from the lenses that fit on them, and the ones that work, well... ONE is nice. The other is serviceable.
 
Spyderman said:
Pitxu - do you have an MZ motorbike ? They were made in Czechoslovakia (unless there is another MZ factory in East Germany of which I don't know). MZ stands for Moravská Zbrojovka (something like "Moravian gun factory").
Click to expand...
Spyderman,

Unless I have my history wrong, MZ was east german and CZ czechoslovakian (spelling?). I used to own a CZ, they were made in Strakonice (spelling again?). Always loved the simplicity of them, I'm tempted to get an MZ TS250 myself...something of a change from the current Suzuki Bandit though!
 

Attachments

  • Bandit1_640.jpg
    Bandit1_640.jpg
    76.6 KB · Views: 0
jdos2 said:
I've had > 10 Kievs.

I now have two working Kievs, and lots of spare parts. It feels funny throwing a camera out, but not so much the Kiev.

I really like the look from the lenses that fit on them, and the ones that work, well... ONE is nice. The other is serviceable.
Click to expand...

You will do best by carefully keeping every non-working Kiev and/or parts. By the time you do away with them, you may gain some space at home and nothing more.

But by keeping all of it, the day may come in which your restoration capacities may surprisingly grow, with or without additional explanatory help.

The Kievs, more than anything, are about potential. Damaged Kievs never age with time. Save this potential even if by now you are not clear what for.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Again regarding the motorbikes: you were right - ČZ was the brand made in Czechoslovakia. MZ bikes were indeed made in Germany. My mistake. :bang: :bang:
 
Last edited:
:angel:
jdos2 said:
I've had > 10 Kievs.

I now have two working Kievs, and lots of spare parts. It feels funny throwing a camera out, but not so much the Kiev.

I really like the look from the lenses that fit on them, and the ones that work, well... ONE is nice. The other is serviceable.
Click to expand...


I've still 8, only 2 working. Make that 9 if the scrapped donor body is included.
I find the camera too complicated - for repair, maintainance, or even downright use. Too complicated to be relied upon for "real work".

Since comparisons with cars and bikes have already been made in this thread, I would compare a Zorki-1 or FED-1 to a Volkswagen. Reliable, even after all these years. Possible to fix, and once fixed, can go on and on. Hard to swat, and will keep on buzzing. That's probably why my Zorki/FED to Kiev ratio is almost 10:1. :D

In use, I've never been able to shoot as quick with the Kiev as I could with the FED or Zorki. I've never missed a shot with the Barnack types. Even with their
separate VF/RF eyepieces. So I may not miss the Kiev so much- except for the same reason as you do- the "look" from the lenses, particularly the Helios 103. I never found the Kiev an easy tool to use for street and candid photography- that's just me. :angel:

Jay
 
I STILL wish the Kievs I have worked well enough to encourage me to use 'em.

They don't, and I don't, sadly enough.

I saved most of the bodies to be sacrificed in the "Contax/Kiev to M-Mount Adapter," but recently sold off several of the lenses. Time to go through and get rid of the bodies, I think...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom