Knife culture

[Michael Markey]

"If you don`t like this or other discussions, then perhaps you shouldn`t take part in them , or in discussion forums in general ".

Fujilove
17/2/16

 

[scigeek]

A lot of people put knife crime down to being 'a London thing', 'a gang thing' or an 'inner city thing', but it's not true. It's concentrated in urban areas probably because of the concentration of people and the added issue of their being more areas of conflict when people are jammed together. But there is a problem with knife crime all over the UK from Aberdeen to Cardiff to London, and rural areas are not immune. In fact, rural areas here have their own added problem of firearms offences, obviously because a lot more people legally carry them in rural and surrounding areas.

The 'gang' thing is also no longer true (if it ever was). The vast majority of children carrying knives are not member of gangs. They either carry them because it's what other people do, as a status symbol or increasingly, for protection.

Another thing to bear in mind with knife crime is that the people who are murdered are only the tip of the iceberg. In the last three years around 12,000 children in the UK were the victims of knife crime (it could be as high as 18,000 as some forces don't report the figures). The vast majority of these crimes were committed by children on other children and included robberies, rapes, kidnappings and serious but non-lethal wounding. Few of these ever make the headlines, but they are obviously devastating for the people involved.

Quote: "One final point - if a kid wants to harm or hurt another kid he/she will find a way to do it, whether they carry a knife or not."

That's absolutely true, but the use of knives magnifies the harm caused. What would have been a broken nose and some nasty but superficial cuts, turn into a fatal wound with knives in the mix. Listen to what the users of knives say about what they did. A common theme is that they had no real idea of the damage they were causing. Most of them had no intention of killing, they just wanted to lash out and inflict pain on their rival, opponent or whatever. Many of them are left stunned by the idea that they have killed someone and destroyed both their lives.

I'm convinced that many of the crimes would never have happened in the first place if these kids were not carrying a knife. The knife emboldens the owner and makes it much more likely that they will use violence to sort out whatever problem they're faced with. And it's simply not true to say that flashing a knife warns an aggressor off and therefore everything is fine. What happens in the real world is that the aggressor is humiliated by their lack of power and resolves to up their game by packing their own weapon, a bigger weapon next time. The original knife carrier may never come across his aggressor again, but someone else will, and they will suffer the consequences.

I've read what you have to say - you are on the wrong forum. We are mainly interested in cameras. Some of us carry knives, but I rather think none of us here fit the profile of a young person carrying a knife for protection. I cite myself as an example.

You may not know this, but years ago it was common for most males to carry a knife in the UK. From Scouts and Cubs (mandatory) to my granddad. I grew up in an industrial town in the NE of England. As a youth I cannot remember one instance of a knife being used to threaten, stab, or otherwise be used for violence. I can remember plenty of fights, but no knives being used.

 

[scigeek]

I wonder if FSU knives are mere knock-offs of German knives?

Would you choose a Swiss knife over a German knife? (I bet Oskar Barnack carried a pocket knife)

Do you prefer the format of a 440 steel blade to other formats of steel blades?

Are you a Large, Medium, or small blade carrier?

Do you have a strap on your knife?

Hope this eases any tension😀

I'll bet Mr Fuji carried a knife too!

 

[scigeek]

Wait a minute ,despite my previous post I realise that I do have a knife.
Bought over 40 years ago when I did alot of fishing.

Dug it out of the back of the garage ....

Nice find!
Normark Filleting Knife with original sheath.
Clearly never been used 😀 .

 

[gb hill]

I'll bet Mr Fuji carried a knife too!

Good one, 😀😀😀😀

 

[kuuan]

I remember a few favorite knives I carried as a child, as all-round tools,local , chaep makes, and a swiss multipurpose knife for my first travels

the thread title "knife culture" makes me remember a few speciality stores that I had seen during various visits to Japan, beautiful knifes, rsome are pieces of art. I had bought a few kitchen knifes that I gave as presents elsewhere

knife shop downtown Kyoto, Ricoh GXR M, Pen-F f3.5/20mm


knifes speciality shop by andreas, on Flickr

 

[FujiLove]

I've read what you have to say - you are on the wrong forum. We are mainly interested in cameras. Some of us carry knives, but I rather think none of us here fit the profile of a young person carrying a knife for protection. I used myself as an example.

You may not know this, but years ago it was common for most males to carry a knife in the UK. From Scouts and Cubs (mandatory) to my granddad.

I'm not saying anyone on here fits the profile or carries a knife for protection. I would have thought that was fairly obvious. What I'm saying is that forums like this are out on the Internet and are read by anyone and everyone. Also, you all interact with children in some way and influence their actions. I strongly believe sensible adults shouldn't routinely carry knives, partly because it normalises that behaviour for any child that witnesses it. Simple as that.

If you want to post knives on a photography forum then fine, I believe in free speech and I hate censorship, but (within the limits of the forum rules) I also have the right to challenge your views and counter the ideas being written here. So no, I'm NOT on the wrong forum. In fact I'd suggest a thread promoting the carrying of knives is on the wrong forum, and by association: YOU!

I hope I'm not breaking any rules here by having a debate, but feel free to report my posts to a moderator if you feel I am, and I'll happily move on.

 

[FujiLove]

You may not know this, but years ago it was common for most males to carry a knife in the UK.

Yes, and forty years ago it seems it was also common for adult men in the UK to sexually abuse kids. But that doesn't make it right or something we want in our lives today. Instead of harking back to some non-existent 'good old days', I'd prefer to try and live in a modern civilised society, thanks.

 

[radi(c)al_cam]

Yes, and forty years ago it seems it was also common for adult men in the UK to sexually abuse kids. But that doesn't make it right or something we want in our lives today. Instead of harking back to some non-existent 'good old days', I'd prefer to try and live in a modern civilised society, thanks.

Wait.

I agree, knives are a phallic symbol, and to an extent they have to do with misogyny, and many other ugly things.

But: your allegation that male Brits forty years ago were commonly child molesters is … really insulting.

 

[davidnewtonguitars]

I ground this blade down from another older knife, different shape, hollow ground to a straight taper. The Japanese steel holds a razor edge for quite a long time, weeks of every-day kitchen use. I made the grip also.

I will be carrying it on the street today, as we are gathering with friends for our Thanksgiving dinner and I get to carve the turkey, a lot of violence going on there.

 

[scigeek]

Yes, and forty years ago

I was 26 by then 😛 .

The "good old days" never existed. However, the fact that most of us carried knives fifty and sixty years ago, and there was no or very little knife crime rather suggests that the knives themselves never were the problem.

Education, and the liberalising of our social system, has a lot to answer for.

Knife-crime, in fact most crime, is largely unknown where I live. We are, I'm happy to state, about 50 years behind everyone else (except Roger and some others on this forum I suspect).

The answer to knife crime is to stop watching the news and reading your daily newspaper. Knife crime does not exist everywhere.

Oh, and respect your elders, unless you are older than me - in which case I apologise, Sir 😀 .

 

[FujiLove]

Wait.

I agree, knives are a phallic symbol, and to an extent they have to do with misogyny, and many other ugly things.

But: your allegation that male Brits forty years ago were commonly child molesters is … really insulting.

Unfortunately, it's not my allegation. It's the evidence that keeps coming to light:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38093957

 

[creenus]

Hi FujiLove,

I'm another proud "bleeding-heart left-wing liberal scum", and a retired, peaceloving newspaper puke. But I have been mugged years ago by a guy with a hatchet (I talked my way out of being hurt) and I did not care for it one bit. The whole incident was almost humorous, now that I look back at it.

So I carry a sharp knife in a briefcase, never in a pocket. Obviously not for air travel. It's legal in New Mexico and I would never use it on anyone, unless my life was in danger.

Besides, almost everyone out here has a handgun in their vehicles. Even the tiny Navajo nurses with whom my wife worked had a pistol in their trucks, which is why road rage is not the smartest thing out here, nor is burglary. So having a knife in a "gun culture" is kinda dumb, actually. And I have no gun in my house - statistics show that having a gun in the home increases one's chances of death by firearms.

There have been college shootings in the USA, and while they are tragic, they are also extremely rare. Despite what you may read, America is not the Wild West. Really. If you don't believe me, travel to the USA and see for yourself. But the college I work at regularly conducts Active Shooter Drills, and everyone knows what to do should this happen. It's just public safety.

I also use the Bøker to slice bagels from the market, and the Swiss Army knife scissors to trim my beard, and to repair stuff.

Knives are just tools to me, in the same way that guitars and amps are tools to make music. And cameras are tools as well.

But I can understand your feelings, and you are certainly entitled to express them here.

Best,
Steve =)

 

[skopar steve]

Dear Steve,

Greetings to a fellow homicidal maniac who is bent on promoting a murderous knife culture!

As many others have aid, knives aren't really much of a weapon for offence or defence, and very few of us go around stabbing one another anyway, so focusing on that (and that alone) seems distinctly eccentric to me.

And, of course, like Sevo you are guilty of introducing mere facts to a rational discussion.

I've just remembered another use for my Leatherman. A few years ago I was in the Julian Alps and accidentally banged my M4-P against a rock (well, I'd hardly do it deliberately, would I?) I bent the stem of the rewind crank crank slightly, stopping it turning. Fortunately, with the Leatherman pliers I was able to straighten it enough to use it again. What should I have done? Stopped taking pictures; gone home; submitted an accident report in triplicate to my insurance company; then sent the camera to an Authorized Repairer? Nah, sorry. Some of us have lives to lead. And indeeed picnics to eat.

For that matter, I was once riding an Enfield Bullet in south India when I hit a patch of soft sand that had blown across the road. I slowed almost to a stop but then fell off. My right elbow found the only pebble in the sand; a strip of skin about 5-6cm long and 1 cm wide was hanging off. So I disinfected it with some Old Monk rum that I had in my water-bottle, cut off the strip of skin with the scissors on my Swiss Army Knife; dressed it with my first aid kit; and rode on to the first clinic I could find. Again, what would I have done without the Swiss Army knife? Bound the dirt into the wound?

Not carrying a knife may be practical if you never do anything or go anywhere, except perhaps a daily commute to your office, but if you've got a life, you need a knife (good slogan, what?).

Cheers,

R.

Your last sentence says it all Rodger. Reminds me of the old Norse saying " a knifeless man is a lifeless man".

 

[Darthfeeble]

But......

But......

If you're untrained/inexperienced in the use of firearms, a gun isn't much of a weapon either! Well, it is, but it's probably a better weapon for the guy who is attacking you than it is for you...

Completely agree about the Leatherman as "a friend in time of needd", though mine's a Wave, and I use the screwdrivers quite a lot and the scissors comparatively little: I find the Swiss Army knife scissors more useful.

Cheers,

R.

To use it as a weapon, the knife has to be close to the one you are defending against. Not so much with the gun. If you are in that sort of predicament and you let the person get close, that's foolish. In a perfect world none of this conversation needs take place, sadly........

 

[scigeek]

Unfortunately, it's not my allegation. It's the evidence that keeps coming to light:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38093957

Your lack of proportion is the problem.
There are 62 (give or take) million people in the UK. Two of them were stabbed today, and it made the news.

What about everyone else. Anyone on here stabbed?
What about the other 61 million-odd people in the UK. Any of them stabbed?

Immerse yourself in this stuff and pretty soon it takes over. Suddenly there's a knife-crime or shooting on every street corner.
Look - here's another one today!

Did you know there are 5 road deaths each day in the UK? It doesn't make the news any more, because it's so commonplace.


I just read your link. It's about paedophiles. What has that to do with knife crime?

 

[BLKRCAT]

If you want to post knives on a photography forum then fine, I believe in free speech and I hate censorship, but (within the limits of the forum rules) I also have the right to challenge your views and counter the ideas being written here.

I hope I'm not breaking any rules here by having a debate, but feel free to report my posts to a moderator if you feel I am, and I'll happily move on.

Not much of a debate. Its clearly very one sided. I'm not sure if you are noticing but many of us want to reply to the OP and converse about it. It's happened many times where the thread is actually enjoyable to read through but the negative stigma you keep injecting into the thread makes it difficult to enjoy. I respect your situation and your beliefs, you've had your say and no one here is forcing you against it.

Yes, and forty years ago it seems it was also common for adult men in the UK to sexually abuse kids. But that doesn't make it right or something we want in our lives today. Instead of harking back to some non-existent 'good old days', I'd prefer to try and live in a modern civilised society, thanks.

Ok, maybe its time to step down from the soap box... Just saying.

 

[Michael Markey]

Correct scigeek .... never been used. 🙂

 

[FujiLove]

Hi FujiLove,

I'm another proud "bleeding-heart left-wing liberal scum", and a retired, peaceloving newspaper puke. But I have been mugged years ago by a guy with a hatchet (I talked my way out of being hurt) and I did not care for it one bit. The whole incident was almost humorous, now that I look back at it.

So I carry a sharp knife in a briefcase, never in a pocket. Obviously not for air travel. It's legal in New Mexico and I would never use it on anyone, unless my life was in danger.

Besides, almost everyone out here has a handgun in their vehicles. Even the tiny Navajo nurses with whom my wife worked had a pistol in their trucks, which is why road rage is not the smartest thing out here, nor is burglary. So having a knife in a "gun culture" is kinda dumb, actually. And I have no gun in my house - statistics show that having a gun in the home increases one's chances of death by firearms.

There have been college shootings in the USA, and while they are tragic, they are also extremely rare. Despite what you may read, America is not the Wild West. Really. If you don't believe me, travel to the USA and see for yourself. But the college I work at regularly conducts Active Shooter Drills, and everyone knows what to do should this happen. It's just public safety.

I also use the Bøker to slice bagels from the market, and the Swiss Army knife scissors to trim my beard, and to repair stuff.

Knives are just tools to me, in the same way that guitars and amps are tools to make music. And cameras are tools as well.

But I can understand your feelings, and you are certainly entitled to express them here.

Best,
Steve =)

Hi Steve - I always love visiting the States and have never had any problems with violent crime there. The closest I got was when I was ten years old and we (my aunt, her female friend and us two boys) strayed into what was apparently a dodgy area of Miami. We were directed back in the generally safer direction by a very worried looking policeman. I don't recall seeing anything remotely criminal, but I do remember spending a pleasant half hour chatting with some young black guys who were sitting on a dockside. Looking back, I guess they may have been the 'criminal danger' that the policemen thought we should be avoiding.

My cousin suffered an attempted armed robbery outside a Vegas casino around the same time (1980 ish). He simply snatched the gun out of the guy's hand. Clearly at that point American criminals hadn't yet fully understood how daft us Brits can be! 🙂

I guess violent crime is an odd thing in that it's so relatively rare (unless you are unlucky enough to live in a Rio slum or Mogadishu) that it passes most people by. The fact remains however, that the US with it's incredibly lax gun controls is far and away less safe than the UK where we practically stop anyone owning a gun. For comparison here are the figures for murders with firearms per million people (2014 figures) which I'm sure you're aware of, but I still find fascinating:

UK: 0.236
US: 32.57

So living in the US you are 138 times more likely to be murdered with a firearm than in the UK. Not twice as likely, not three times...A HUNDRED AND THIRTY EIGHT TIMES MORE LIKELY! Sheesh.

At this point I feel it's right to quote the late great Bill Hicks...

"But there is no connection between owning a gun and using a gun. And you would be a fool and a communist to make one. There is NO connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it, and NOT having a gun and NOT shooting someone with it."

Sometimes I miss Bill so much 🙁

 

[scigeek]

Ok - I've tried to discuss knife crime with you. You've introduced paedophiles, gun crime in the USA, and now Bill Hicks.

Please - stick to the topic - knives.

Or cameras.