Kodak 35 RF Shutter cocking AFTER frame advance lock up

[Jenrick]

A bit more of a detailed explanation of the title:

The film advances, everything turns as it should, all good so far. The advance winder locks up, but the shutter is NOT cocked. Pressing the shutter unlock and winding a hair past will cock the shutter. It's actually a workable way to run the camera, but it's not the intended behavior obviously.

With the back out and film out, everything on the winder and frame counter seem to be okay. What do I need to disassemble to get to the cocking mechanism, or is it going to be a shutter issue?

Thanks!

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

No experience with the model in question, but from your description it sounds like mechanical wear is resulting in the cocking lever or gear needed to fully arm the shutter now having insufficient movement to complete the process within the allotted wind travel as it was designed to do when new. You've established that the shutter will actually cock and release. Issue is it's not doing that to spec. It will either be mechanical wear and excessive tolerances (probably adjustable after examining the components) or, possibly, and simpler, sticking components needing clean and lube to move freely again.

From your description I would probably begin with the body mechanism that translates wind on to shutter tensioning, in the first instance. Sounds like the shutter proper is running off, once it has actually been fully cocked.
Cheers,
Brett

 

[citizen99]

As above ^^^.


And there are some helpful pictures here :-

http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=kodak35


Good luck.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

The timing is off between the sprocket wheel roller, where the film runs over, and the shutter cocking gear and the frame lock.

It's not a particularly difficult fix, but it might take a few attempts before finding the right timing between the components.
Basically you remove the screws holding down the sprocket roller cover.
This allows you to remove the cover and the sprocket wheel part.
Study the gearing a bit and turn the sprocket wheel roller so that the pin at the top only hits the frame locking cam AFTER it has turned far enough for the conical gear on the front side of the camera to advance the shutter cocking gear far enough.

If you can't figure it out, there's always the option to remove the top cover off the shutter and cock the shutter by pushing the slider underneath from the right to the left until it clicks in place.
You often find Kodak 35 cameras with the cover removed because once the Diomatic/Flashmatic/Kodamatic shutters become a little stiff the camera start tearing up the film when trying to advance/cock it.

 

[Jenrick]

Thanks all. I had seen the tear down pictures on a couple of places, unfortunately it doesn't go into the area I'm having trouble with.

Mr. Flibble, thank you. I don't know why it didn't occur to me to do that, it makes perfect sense now that you've said it.

The camera actually works in it's current state, I just have to depress the shutter release and wind a hair past the point I need. Inconvieant, but workable. I've got a test roll in it currently to see how the lens does, but once I'm done with that, I'll re-time it.

Thanks again!

 

[Mr_Flibble]

You want to be sure that the anti-rollback mechanism on the winding knob works too. The winding knob should only turn in one direction when it is in the down position. Otherwise the tension of the cocking mechanism reset spring will try to roll back the sprocket wheels and pull the film from the take off spool giving you all kinds of spacing trouble 😉

Often the bearing of this anti-rollback mechanism have been lost because someone has removed the winding knob from the top when trying to service the camera.

 

[Jenrick]

Yeah I had noticed the clutch housing for the winder knob was completely empty. However the winder release button has a pawl that locks up the winder knob well enough (I think, the test roll will show me if I'm wrong).

I'm still trying to get the middle lens element out so I can clean up the shutter, I'll probably chuck it in the drill press this weekend if nothing else works. I also need to re-cement the mirrors back into the RF, but I'll wait until the end to do that.

-Jenrick

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Eugh, I've only managed to get the center element out on one of these.
It definitely needs lubrication to re-insert or the copper threads wil just bind from the friction.

Without the clutch brake in the winding knob, you'll have to hang on to the knob while winding, though.
I've had luck making replacement bearings with a 2mm thick nail and cuting and sanding 2mm long sections.