noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
Kodak-Alaris is raising prices by 8%. That beats what Fuji is going to do: https://petapixel.com/2017/10/27/fu...ook-grim/?mc_cid=05554d0724&mc_eid=08903530b5
Kodak Alaris is increasing prices
- Thread starter HHPhoto
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css9450
Veteran
This means either one of two possibilities: One, the film resurgence is not real, or two, the Fuji boycott, itself a byproduct of a very real film resurgence, is hitting them hard. Flip a coin.
BlackXList
Well-known
Same for me with Kodak BW400CN, and the failure to bring any of the advances in the Vision line through to the photography range.
I still feel affection towards Kodak, but they made me have to go fully digital.
Here's one example.
http://www.japancamerahunter.com/2017/10/film-news-fujifilm-end-nigh/
Various people have been white anting Fuji for years, discouraging photographers from purchasing their products and then pointing the finger at them when some are dropped due to reduced demand. It's really very hypocritical, in my opinion. If Hunt or his cohorts are genuinely concerned about the demise of a particular film(s) (Fuji or otherwise), instead of authoring BS such as the example above, they should buy and shoot the film(s). Nothing, repeat, nothing, else will ever be as beneficial to preserving the future of your favourite film stocks, as purchasing and using them.
Faintandfuzzy
Well-known
I think he just has the tinfoil wrapped too tight on his head. There is no conspiracy with JCH.
Carey M
Established
No conspiracy, but I do find his Fuji bashing a bit one-sided and short-sighted 🙄
Michael Markey
Veteran
Fuji seems to be the firm that film users love to hate for some reason.
Fuji is just responding to the market which, in spite attempts to talk it up, is still very small.
There are a few start ups ,that`s true ,but like Ernest Hemingway said "never confuse movement with action".
I think that in less than ten years film is going to be a rather expensive option unfortunately.
Fuji is just responding to the market which, in spite attempts to talk it up, is still very small.
There are a few start ups ,that`s true ,but like Ernest Hemingway said "never confuse movement with action".
I think that in less than ten years film is going to be a rather expensive option unfortunately.
css9450
Veteran
Well, sure, but that article is dated yesterday.
Where is he advocating a boycott?
It's dated 27th October, which is four days ago as I write this on 31st October.
Not sure I used the word "boycott". Did I? I may have, but don't recall doing so. What is clear is that the JCH site has a history of posting anti-Fuji material. Here are a couple more from a very quick search.
http://www.japancamerahunter.com/2012/07/why-does-fujifilm-hate-its-customers/
http://www.japancamerahunter.com/2016/01/fujifilm-announces-worldwide-price-rise-again/
The latter includes this gem:
So, Fuji, let’s get it over with. I say Fuji, as you might as well drop Film from your name, as it is no longer part of your business. Jog on Fuji, there are plenty of other Film manufacturers who are doing a much better job than you of promoting film photography.
Personally I regularly use film manufactured by Fujifilm, Kodak and Ilford and I think it's ultimately better for all film photographers if there are as many companies as possible producing film products. Comments such as the above do nothing to promote the use of film as a photographic medium, or unity among those who use it and they are not constructive.
Cheers
Brett
css9450
Veteran
You're right... My calendar still says its the 28th! That was Saturday.
It was Jan (HHPhoto) who says there is a boycott. Tens of thousands of people boycotting them, or so he (she?) says. But that baffles me... If my favorite film was about to be discontinued, I would want to buy as much of it as I could before it is gone. That is the opposite of a boycott. If the prices were expected to go up soon, I would want to buy as much of it as I could right away. Again, the opposite of a boycott.
This whole situation is most bizarre!
HHPhoto
Well-known
HHPhoto
Well-known
Exactly.
Only quite blind people can ignore the anti-Fuji agenda of Bellamy Hunt.
And his permanent Fuji bashing is hurting all of us film photographers:
He recommends that photographers should stop buying Fuji films. That leads to further decreasing demand for Fuji films, and we will loose more films!
Fujifilm is leading in technology in certain areas of film:
- reversal film technology
- 4th layer technology
- records in reciprocity characteristics (Provia 100F, Acros 100)
- finest grain and highest resolution with amateur colour negative films
- by far the best 120 format film converting quality with the Easy Loading, Easy End Seal and Barcode systems
- best QC of all film manufacturers.
No other film manufacturer can offer that!
Therefore Fujifilm cannot be replaced by Kodak, Ilford, Foma, Adox or film Ferrania!
So the danger that we could loose unique technology is given.
As a result of the market damaging behaviour of Hunt and his fanboys.
And another problem is caused by this:
Strong increasing prices!!
If Fujifilm is kicked out of the market, we will have a Kodak monopol for color film. And then the prices will further increase!
Look at the already extremely high prices for Kodak colour sheet films and you can imagine the trend.
Probably these very high prices is what Bellamy Hunt wants: His "Street Pan" is already offered at more than double the price of Rollei Superpan, Retro 400S and Infrared, which offer exactly the same look as the "Street Pan".
Fact is, the behaviour of Mr. Hunt is very bad for all of us film lovers. It is absolutely counterproductive.
We have to support our real film manufacturers like Fujifilm, Ilford, Kodak, Foma, Adox, Bergger, Polaroid Originals..., those who produce new, fresh film, by buying their products.
The more, the better.
Real demand for fresh high-quality film is the only thing which keeps the lines running!
Cheers, Jan
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I still don't find anything more than laments and anger about the continuing discontinuations by Fuji. I'm in several of those FB film groups, I really don't get a feeling that they are actively trying to make me boycott Fuji.
I shoot mostly B&W, and I support Ilford (because they are clearly interested in producing film for as long as they can - including statements to the effect that that they would like to sell the last roll of film), Adox (because Mirko has proven he can produce new emulsions), ORWO (because they are offering excellent films that I really like the look of), Rollei (because they also have films I really like the look of - Ortho and RPX25). I used to shoot a lot of Fuji Neopan 1600. That was the only B&W film of theirs that worked for me. Other than APX25 I never had much of a thing for Agfa B&W films. The Ultra 100 was my main color film, I bought all I could find when it was discontinued - some 300+ rolls. When I shot stock photographs I used Kodak the E100 family, Kodachrome, Provia, Velvia and the Agfa RSX films. They all had their place. What color film I do shoot now is 90% Fuji. I just ordered some more the other day. I have a couple of new boxes of 8x10 Portra 160 in my fridge, but I won't touch Kodak roll films. I won't take the risk that what I shoot is going to be ruined by Kodak not having decent quality control.
I'm also supporting these new start-ups who are trying to make film in smaller scale situations, because the writing truly does seem to be on the wall for Fuji & Kodak. Their scale is incompatible with modern film demand, they seem destined to fail. I would rather put my money into companies who are trying to work within this new demand structure who I feel have a better chance at actually producing film 20 years from now.
I shoot mostly B&W, and I support Ilford (because they are clearly interested in producing film for as long as they can - including statements to the effect that that they would like to sell the last roll of film), Adox (because Mirko has proven he can produce new emulsions), ORWO (because they are offering excellent films that I really like the look of), Rollei (because they also have films I really like the look of - Ortho and RPX25). I used to shoot a lot of Fuji Neopan 1600. That was the only B&W film of theirs that worked for me. Other than APX25 I never had much of a thing for Agfa B&W films. The Ultra 100 was my main color film, I bought all I could find when it was discontinued - some 300+ rolls. When I shot stock photographs I used Kodak the E100 family, Kodachrome, Provia, Velvia and the Agfa RSX films. They all had their place. What color film I do shoot now is 90% Fuji. I just ordered some more the other day. I have a couple of new boxes of 8x10 Portra 160 in my fridge, but I won't touch Kodak roll films. I won't take the risk that what I shoot is going to be ruined by Kodak not having decent quality control.
I'm also supporting these new start-ups who are trying to make film in smaller scale situations, because the writing truly does seem to be on the wall for Fuji & Kodak. Their scale is incompatible with modern film demand, they seem destined to fail. I would rather put my money into companies who are trying to work within this new demand structure who I feel have a better chance at actually producing film 20 years from now.
Michael Markey
Veteran
I agree Jan .
I got accused in another thread of being rather cynical about the so called film renaissance .... and I wouldn`t disagree .
It`s partly because of the antics detailed above.
That site was pushing Agfa Vista some years ago at a silly price.
You can pick it up for a £1 a roll in any cut price shop in the UK.
I made the mistake of pointing this out and the reply was best described as unhelpful.
It was then that I began to see the true nature of some of these film supporters.
However that aside I shall endeavour to be more positive in future :angel:
brbo
Well-known
Yet, Bellamy would gain NOTHING even if he COULD decrease Fuji sales.
Maybe it's time Fuji put some marketing (apart from the HHPhoto/Skiff Instax twins) into his traditional film emulsions. But we know this won't happen. It's been Instax only for years now. Don't say that Bellamy has a wider reach than Fuji marketing...
And, BTW I checked this "Kodak is already more expensive than Fuji in Europe" mantra you've been repeating a lot lately. Only 1 (o-n-e) comparable type of Fuji film is cheaper than Kodak's (400H is 3% cheaper than Portra 400). All other Kodak films like ColorPlus 200, Gold 200, UltraMax 400, Portra 160, Portra 800, T-Max 100 are cheaper than Fuji's C200, Superia 200, Superia X-tra 400, 160NS, Venus 800, Acros 100. If the AVERAGE 8% increase mainly goes into bringing the price of films that are 30% or more cheaper than Fuji's it's quite possible that all Kodak films will still be cheaper. Of course, I don't have the slightest of idea which prices they intend to raise, but neither do you. Yet, you still grab even the slightest of opportunities to bash Kodak or other film producers (or "producers").
What is your agenda? Are you any better than Bellamy? I can understand venting frustration when yet another films is pulled out of the market (guilty!) but I can't possibly understand what's wrong with new (or "new") films on the market. Just because it's not Instax doesn't make it worthless to some users of film, right?!
edit: To be clear, I find StreetPan film ridiculous, but if he found market for it... good riddance. I wished Fuji found market for 400X, Velvia 50 and Acros 100 in 4x5 and 8x10 and so many more...
brbo
Well-known
Which is a Fuji produced film that they are otherwise selling for £4 under their own brand name. You are actually hurting Fuji more than Bellamy or any other "film supporters" ever could.
I have a source for relabelled Fuji Provia 100F for less than 4 EUR, yet I still buy far more Fuji labeled slide and negative film for far more money, sometimes even Fuji labeled Provia 100F in 135 format which is totally ridiculous when you consider the price.
Michael Markey
Veteran
Well I actually don`t buy it because I don`t care for it .
I shoot film but I`m not about to go to the lengths of paying more than the market price for it.
I`ve used it for over 50 years but if they can`t produce it at a price the market can bear then I`m happy to shoot digitally.
Its a hobby for me ...... nothing more.
There are more things in this world to worry about quite frankly
HHPhoto
Well-known
Well, he is decreasing Fujifilm sales with his long going on Fuji bashing. Problem is that unfortunately several other film blogger/vloggers uncritically just follow him and repeat all his messages again and again.
A big multiplication effect.
That is not true. At least not in the biggest film market in Europe, Germany.
And currently Kodak prices don't reflect the price increase, because the dealers have stocked up at the former prices. In some months we will see the new price level.
My agenda is very simple: I love film. And I want the best real film producers keeping their lines running. Companies like Ilford, Fujifilm, Kodak, Foma, Adox, Film Ferrania, InovisCoat, Polaroid Originals.
Companies that produce quality products.
And by the way, it is not true that I am a "Kodak basher". I use their films for decades. And continue to do so. I use T-Max 400, Portra 160 and Gold 200 quite regularly.
But as a loyal customer I think I also have the right to criticise if something went wrong, like the current QC issues.
I've never said I am any better than Bellamy.
But at least in my job I don't tell marketing fairy tells about the products of the company I am working for.
I don't rip-off the customers of my company by selling products at double of the market price.
I don't bash competitors.
Cheers, Jan
css9450
Veteran
I must have some serious comprehension issues because when I read the above linked article I saw him say its bad news they are discontinuing several more types of film, and he suggested we should stock up now.
brbo
Well-known
Yes, it is. I can quote (I'm sure you can, too) all the prices from maco (Germany, EU) to support my claim.
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