Corran
Well-known
PS: film photography and darkroom printing is still a major component of art education programs and I have even seen high school photography programs starting to get back into teaching film.
Huss
Veteran
It is not fickle. Year upon year increase is not fickle.
If it was would you think film mfgs would be investing like they are now?
Why would getting married and having children be the end of their film buying days? If anything having kids would be an incentive - they now can capture those moments permanently on film. Not have a billion shots on an iPhone. Which is exactly why film is coming back.
Your attitude to film is prevalent of the old timers gloom and doom. Almost wishing it would go away so you can shake your stick and say I told you so.
Fuji would not have created the new Across. Kodak would not have created the new EV100. Lomochrome would not have created the new Metropolis if film is a fickle trend.
Skiff
Well-known
This I am hearing now for about 15 years from all the digital datasheet fetishists.
But it has nothing do to do with reality.
1. Digital Imaging and film photography are physically completely differently working image capture mediums. And because of these fundamental differences the pictures will always be different.
2. The look of film is only one of the numerous characteristics and unique features of film. There is a lot more film offers.
Lots of my photographer friends are working with computers in their jobs. All of them have given up digital as their main photo tool! All of them have come back to film as their main tool for enjoying photography.
Because they don't want that their whole life, job and free time, their hobby, is fully dictated by digital technology only. They don't want to be only marrionettes of the big tech monopoly companies.
Even if you put all other factors aside, film usage will increase further because of one reason: An increasing number of people are completely tired of digital technology conquering every single second of their life. They want variety, more tactile experience, slowing down and craftmanship and less digital pressure and paternalism in their lives.
Film photography is perfect to escape from daily stress.
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xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I am actually a film shooter...I only got one digital camera that was gifted to me new over 12 years ago and own and use a countless number or film cameras, many are LTM Barnack types and their Japanese and FSU copies and a bevy of beautiful classic lenses from the great German and Japanese makers plus many FSU lenses.
Most young families shoot digital for their family snaps because it is very convenient and they can easily email send them to family and friends, and the cell phone is right in their pocket or purse and is ever so handy and quick.
Makers of film are just meeting current demand..it would be foolish from a monetary point of view not to do so...but they are not under any illusion that this is going to go for ever. It will ebb and flow and ebb till it will peter out to nothing as the years go by and generations change.
Skiff
Well-known
Fact is that
- all film manufacturers are investing heavily in new products and / or new machinery to satisfy the increasing demand
- even new film manufacturers like Adox, IC and FF are on the market (all the digital doom and gloom ideologs have said for years that that will never happen!)
- lots of new film stores, camera stores and new labs have opened in the last 2-5 years
- new large format and pinhole cameras have been introduced to the market.
All these companies are doing these investments because they know that film has a sustainable and long term future.
I well remember all the photo fairs I have visited during 2002 and 2006. At that time the digital companies and marketing people all said that film will completely die in the next 6-10 years.
But now we have almost 20 years later, and film is not only still alive, it is even strongly increasing.
And one film segment, instant film, is meanwhile a much bigger part of the market than any digital camera segment!
Film has even significantly surpassed digital imaging in this area.
Mackinaw
Think Different
You're probably right, but I once read that the last car to be made will be a sports car, because it's car of passion. Likewise, there will probably always be somebody coating their own 4x5 glass plates with a B&W emulsion, just because they love film photography.
In the meantime, I'm enjoying this new film boom.
Jim B.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Give it time and film will really be dead...just like all of us..eventually.
Nothing goes on for ever.
Out to Lunch
Ventor
Always advisable to repeat a message for the true believers who tend to be deaf and dumb: at least where I live today, the cost of film is not the issue. The real issue is the almost total eradication of the film infrastructure. Today, a small number of labs are trying to make a come-back, including for B&W but they have to sell at a high price in order to make a profit.
Skiff
Well-known
Wrong again.
Art forms don't die. All have survived all technological changes. Even the art forms of the stone age are alive today.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Yes I am sure that is true....I also looked into wet-plate photography even though film is around and I got a purposely bought freezer for film that still has a good supply of 15 and 7 year old frozen film in 35mm and in 120 rolls and 35mm 100 foot bulk rolls.
There are people that do daguerreotype photography in our present time, not a super numerous bunch but they do exist .
Skiff
Well-known
You are currently living in Vietnam, right?
It is a wonderful example for the power of the film revival:
About 5-6 years ago there was only a tiny film photographer scene in Vietnam.
Almost nothing was there on which a revival could have built on.
Nevertheless enthusiasts and clever entrepreneurs have seen the chance, promoted film use, opened film cafes and small labs, imported film from other countries, get more active in camera repair and so on. And over the years a very vivid film scene has developed. The Vietnam film shooter group on facebook has now 130,000 members!! More than double compared to rff. It is meanwhile even the most active film shooter group on facebook.
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xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
You can split hairs to almost infinite ever thin sizes... but a few antiquated art forms here and there is of not too great of a significance.
I am sure a few painters exist that grind their own natural pigments and paint scenes in egg-tempra on hand split and hand planed and shark skin sanded oak wooden panels like they did in the 13th century..but that is not going to cause a boom in natural pigment material mining and marble pestle and mortar makers and hand hewn oak panels and sun dried shark skin.
Corran
Well-known
Freestyle is often out-of-stock of C-41 and E-6 development kits. I'm talking about the larger gallon size ones.
With the new products on the market making color development easier (sous vide things) it's easy to do at home.
I personally have spent thousands on color chemicals for home developing. Just this week I finally got my RA-4 processing in order and have started enlarging from color negative film. And I'm mostly a b&w shooter, so this is just a side thing for me.
Of course b&w is easy and de rigueur for most b&w shooters, now and for the last 100 years.
This is a non-issue and just more fake news as already stated. People still paint with oils and chisel with stone. Film or light-sensitive emulsions anyway will ALWAYS be available or at the least, able to be made up from scratch since it's just basic chemistry and glass.
jerrybro
Member
IIRC there is a way to develop these as B&W.
madNbad
Well-known
I tried a Rondinax then changed to a dark tent and tank. What I found interesting about LabBox was their marketing information. It’s aimed at the people just getting started with film and want to take the next step. The product is designed to make that step easier. I’ve heard it called the darkroom for the Instagram crowd.
jawarden
Well-known
Personal computers paired with modern printers are better in every way when compared to manual typewriters, a revolution that happened before digital cameras overtook film. And there are designer fonts on my computer that look convincingly like a typewriter made them, so there is no need to use an actual typewriter even if you want that nostalgic look. That's why there are no factories anywhere making typewriters any more.
Oh wait, it seems new manual typewriters are still being produced and are easily available and affordable (at Walmart, Staples, Amazon, etc) some forty years after the digital revolution. I guess it's because people simply like typewriters and vote with their wallets.
I'm happy to hear of growing markets for the large and small film companies, and wish them well. Film is worth paying for.
Oh wait, it seems new manual typewriters are still being produced and are easily available and affordable (at Walmart, Staples, Amazon, etc) some forty years after the digital revolution. I guess it's because people simply like typewriters and vote with their wallets.
I'm happy to hear of growing markets for the large and small film companies, and wish them well. Film is worth paying for.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Telenal 1L press kit was available for many years, of not decades.
It is developer and blix only kit. No brainier, same as B&W. Easier than some of the new products.
To manufacture film you need precise machinery and film base. It is not garage, basement, tent emulsion thing.
Look at Ferania SNAFU.
Corran
Well-known
The point I was trying to make is that you can make home-made black and white emulsions and coat glass plates literally forever.
benlees
Well-known
Yes, film will be around for a long, long time. In the world of niches. So use it. Just like oil paints and carburetors. Just like copper plate and glass plate; still around. Yes, more people are using film right now but the industry is a shell of its former self and this won't change. I imagine sales of b&w film has remained relatively steady for the last few years because it has been a niche for a long time- I have no numbers to back this up though.
The argument that Freestyle or B&H is out of a film shows high demand falls flat on its face because films were available everywhere not long ago. Sure, it's the internet and everyone shops online but I can still get shoelaces at Amazon or at the shop down the road; film not so much. And like someone mentioned there is no longer convenient infrastructure to get the most out of your film. Most film now is digitized anyway, which is what; better than nothing? Hardly a good business model.
Celebrate roll and sheet film, but it will celebrated as a niche product. Not quite sure why this threatens people.
The argument that Freestyle or B&H is out of a film shows high demand falls flat on its face because films were available everywhere not long ago. Sure, it's the internet and everyone shops online but I can still get shoelaces at Amazon or at the shop down the road; film not so much. And like someone mentioned there is no longer convenient infrastructure to get the most out of your film. Most film now is digitized anyway, which is what; better than nothing? Hardly a good business model.
Celebrate roll and sheet film, but it will celebrated as a niche product. Not quite sure why this threatens people.
Corran
Well-known
Who's threatened? I think we are just pointing out your statements/arguments are flawed. As you said, you have no numbers to back anything up. Yet the point of this thread...