Kodak Retina IIIC

[tennis-joe]

I have 2 Kodak Retina IIIC cameras and do they have to have film to advance the frames? Both of them are not allowing the shutter to go off? Maybe because I haven't used them they are not allowing the lever to move?

 

[madNbad]

Here are a couple of things to try. Retinas use a countdown frame counter and will lock the mechanism when the counter reaches 1. The button on the back of the camera will advance the frame counter, this should unlock the advance mechanism. There is a plunger behind the shutter release. When you push it down, it will release the advance mechanism and you should be able to use the advance lever to reset the camera.

 

[Godfrey]

Here are a couple of things to try. Retinas use a countdown frame counter and will lock the mechanism when the counter reaches 1. The button on the back of the camera will advance the frame counter, this should unlock the advance mechanism. There is a plunger behind the shutter release. When you push it down, it will release the advance mechanism and you should be able to use the advance lever to reset the camera.

The problem is most likely exactly what madNbad said above. To expand on this:

The Retina uses a manual film counter, you have to set it manually when you load film. When the camera reaches the last frame, the film wind is locked to prevent over-stressing and tearing the film.

On the top deck of the camera, to the left and aft of the shutter release, is the Film Release Button. On the back of the camera, marked with an arrow pointing to the right, there is the Counter Setting Button. See photo...

When you're firing the camera without film in it, when the counter reaches 1, the film advance locks. To get the film advance to work again, you press the Film Release Button and, with it pressed, slide the Counter Setting Button to the right to advance the counter to the loading point (the diamond mark for 36 exposure film rolls). After that, the film advance will work as normal.

When you load film, you set the counter to the film advance mark for the film length you're using, which is always two more than the number of frames on the roll. There are diamond marks provided for 36 and 20 exposure rolls, since those were the common film lengths available from Kodak in the 1950s. If you load a 24 exposure roll, set the counter for 26 exposures, and so forth.

There are other uses for these two button controls, such as when removing and then reloading a film that already has some exposures on it, making double exposures, etc. The basic rule is that if you want to wind the shutter without moving the film or adjust the film counter setting, you press the film release button and then wind the shutter or work the counter setting button.

G

 

[tennis-joe]

Thanks for the instructions as I just got home and followed instructions and it worked. Thanks for your help.

 

[Stacker]

Thx @Godfrey. I have 2 Retina Automatics and never thought about using the film release to make double exposures.


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[oftheherd]

Fascinating the things camera designers come up with to help us.

I often thought about getting an interchangeable lens Retina (I do have the right camera in mind for lens interchange ability?). But by the time I realized they existed, I was quite satisfied with my Welta Weltini.

 

[Godfrey]

Yes, the post-war Retina IIc and IIIc models (at least, don't know about the others off the top of my head) had front-element interchangeable lenses with two alternative focal lengths available: 35mm and 80mm. The lenses were either made by Schneider or Rodenstock ... only Schneider in the US market, Rodenstock more commonly in the EU and other places, it seems.

I've been reading up on these cameras and have been pleasantly surprised by what I've discovered. As I mentioned, my mom had a IIIc (I believe it was a gift from my father about 1955 or so) and while she was very reluctant to have anyone else touch it, I remember handling it a couple of times and was quite drawn to it even back in 1968 ...

The Retina IIc/C and IIIc/C are not as versatile as, say, the Leica M3 of the same era but show a remarkable sophistication, build quality, and feature set given the price. I haven't found a definitive original selling price listing, but from what I have found the IIIc in '55 was usually sold for prices from $200 down to about $130, depending on the vendor. (Leica M3 with 50mm Summicron in '55-56 was about $450-500 selling price, a HUGE difference in that era!)

Using the alternative lenses was a bit of a tricky game because, unlike the M3, the rangefinder had only one calibration and that was for the 50mm lens. So the way you used, say, an 80mm lens was to focus with the rangefinder, find the distance, than flip the camera over where a Tele distance scale allowed you to transfer that setting to the right focus extension for the 80mm lens. To get closer than about 7' with the 80mm lens, you also needed the matched close up lens, which had its paired scale on the Tele range, and the 35mm lens had its separate scale there too. And then, of course, you needed the optical or wireframe finder for these alternatives to view with. AND neither the wide nor tele lenses can be used and close the lens door... nor most filters too, it seems. 🙂

On the one hand, it's a bit clumsy and slow in operation so you tend to use the 50mm lens by itself most of the time. On the other hand, it makes you think carefully about what you're doing, all the time, so in some ways it helps promote better photos since you MUST focus on how you have the camera set up to be sure it matches what you have in mind for the subject and the specific photograph.

I'll make some beauty shots of a IIc with the lenses and multi-finder a little later today. It's a very attractive looking camera in most every way. 🙂

G

 

[Godfrey]

Took a couple of days to get back to this, but here are the photos I promised:

Kodak Retina IIc w Schneider 50mm

Kodak Retina IIc w Schneider 80 and 35 mm, and Multifinder​

Enjoy! 😀

G

 

[tennis-joe]

Retina

Retina

Great photos of you Retina

 

[madNbad]

The first Retina I bought was a IIIc that came with the 80mm lens (with bubble case) and the finder. I tried the 80 one time and stashed it away until I sold the camera. Kudos to anyone who has the patience to focus and then transfer the distance settings from the finder to the lens.

 

[Godfrey]

Great photos of you Retina

Thank you!

The first Retina I bought was a IIIc that came with the 80mm lens (with bubble case) and the finder. I tried the 80 one time and stashed it away until I sold the camera. Kudos to anyone who has the patience to focus and then transfer the distance settings from the finder to the lens.

It's definitely a slow and studied workflow, same for the 35mm lens (on yet a different focusing scale). And if you want to focus with the 80mm closer than about 7 feet, you also need to install the matched close-up lens and use the close-up Tele scale to set the distance. Then you get from 6.5 to 3.5 feet.

I'll play with it at some point. I have the whole kit now so it'll prove to be fun at some point. I do like shooting with the Retina IIc/IIIc a whole lot: It's a very handy camera.

G

 

[Godfrey]

So I loaded a fresh roll of film in the Retina IIIc this morning and took it with me on my bicycle ride. About ten frames into the roll, the advance lever jammed. “Aw, shucks. 70 year old camera. Advance mechanism flaked. Sigh. …”

When I got home, I pulled the roll out in a changing bag and tested the camera. Hmm. No problem with the advance at all. I loaded a test roll and ran it through the camera: fine, no Problem.

Back in the changing bag, I tried pulling the film when it misbehaved out of the cassette… the cassette jammed. How unusual! I think That’s only the second roll of 35mm factory loaded film that I’ve had jam in 53 years!

Camera is fine. I loaded another fresh roll to start shooting with tomorrow. 😀

G

 

[tennis-joe]

Check previous answers on the jam and you can see the reason

 

[Godfrey]

Check previous answers on the jam and you can see the reason

Huh ??

The jam I experienced was due to a new, factory-loaded roll of 35mm film.

It was not the automatic advance lockout of the Retina IIIc: I proved that yesterday by dry-firing a test roll of film through camera after removing the jammed roll, and have today made 20 exposures on another fresh, new roll of 35mm film with the same camera. My camera is working perfectly, but it can't advance when a 35mm film cassette jams. 🙂

G

 

[KoNickon]

How did the cassette jam? I have never heard of this, much less experienced it.

 

[Pioneer]

Well you learn something new every day it seems.

I've short loaded hand loads and had them stop unexpectedly but I personally have never experienced a film jam in the cassette itself.

Would be interested to know what you find as a cause Godfrey.

Huh ??

The jam I experienced was due to a new, factory-loaded roll of 35mm film.

It was not the automatic advance lockout of the Retina IIIc: I proved that yesterday by dry-firing a test roll of film through camera after removing the jammed roll, and have today made 20 exposures on another fresh, new roll of 35mm film with the same camera. My camera is working perfectly, but it can't advance when a 35mm film cassette jams. 🙂

G

 

[Godfrey]

How did the cassette jam? I have never heard of this, much less experienced it.

Well you learn something new every day it seems.

I've short loaded hand loads and had them stop unexpectedly but I personally have never experienced a film jam in the cassette itself.

Would be interested to know what you find as a cause Godfrey.

As best I could figure from examining the (destroyed) cassette and the spool after processing, the cassette caps were crimped a little too much, slightly distorting them and causing a lot of friction and roughness as the spool played out the film. I tried to load it into the Lab Box but the film would not pull smoothly out of the cassette and skipped off the take up reel's rails. I unloaded that in the changing bag, again, and used the Rondix "reel-less" tank: rolling the film into the tank for the first pass into developer was very rough and tight about a quarter of the way into the load, but the Rondix tank is so simple that it's nearly impossible for it not to work in the end.

I got seven decent frames out of that roll. They're drying now, I have to see whether any of them are decent photos.

There are 19 exposures left on the new roll I loaded the camera with yesterday, and the camera is functioning perfectly with it ... 🙂

G

 

[Pioneer]

Thank you. I would never have suspected the crimp causing the problem.

As best I could figure from examining the (destroyed) cassette and the spool after processing, the cassette caps were crimped a little too much, slightly distorting them and causing a lot of friction and roughness as the spool played out the film. I tried to load it into the Lab Box but the film would not pull smoothly out of the cassette and skipped off the take up reel's rails. I unloaded that in the changing bag, again, and used the Rondix "reel-less" tank: rolling the film into the tank for the first pass into developer was very rough and tight about a quarter of the way into the load, but the Rondix tank is so simple that it's nearly impossible for it not to work in the end.

I got seven decent frames out of that roll. They're drying now, I have to see whether any of them are decent photos.

There are 19 exposures left on the new roll I loaded the camera with yesterday, and the camera is functioning perfectly with it ... 🙂

G

 

[Godfrey]

Thank you. I would never have suspected the crimp causing the problem.

This is only the second 35mm cassette jam I've experienced in fifty-some years and I don't know how many thousands of rolls of film I've shot. The first was easy to see why: the spool had an obvious defect. That was more than thirty years ago! This one is more subtle, but that explanation is all I can come up with since I had to destroy the cassette so I could get the spool out to examine it.

The fresh load I replaced it with I completed on this mornings ride and the camera worked flawlessly throughout. I'll process it in a little bit. 👍

G

 

[Dachs99]

Kodak Retina IIIc
https://flic.kr/p/2kKr3fD