Kodak's breathtaking price increases (at least in Japan)..

[Dante_Stella]

Silver is $19/oz down from $48 so it's not the silver. I guess we can blame this on CEO Jackoff from Motorola (that's really his name).

http://www.kitcosilver.com/charts.html

Don't be so sure. Companies whose businesses are highly dependent on the price of things like precious metals lock in their contracts in advance based on future forecasts. A short-term drop in silver prices is not going to affect what they pay, much less what they charge.

Dante

 

[Ranchu]

That's what I said. I don't doubt they're hedged, that's why futures were invented. It's because of Jackoff.

 

[semi-ambivalent]

Isn't "Kodak" the film supplier now a different company from the Kodak we all grew up with? I wouldn't be surprised if they're just trying to make/keep film profitable in light of (probably) lower year over year demand.

I imagine at some point though, significantly higher prices will themselves cause a drop in demand.

I realize anyone shooting film now does it for their own reasons. That said, is shooting a film Leica that much cheaper than a digital M? If you're approaching 100+ rolls a year, then you're definitely in the annual digital M depreciation zone (if you bought one new).

If you want Tri-X (5063) it will be Kodak Alaris. If you want, e.g., Double-X (5222) you still go to 'old' Kodak's movie film division. If Kodak had stopped being the company I grew up with sooner than they did they might not have gotten into the mess they did. 🙂

Drop in demand only matters if you're wedded to a particular emulsion. In the case of Kodak Alaris I would think Tri-X would be the last emulsion they would stop coating. People would move to different emulsions if they could. I today bought 100' of Orwo 74 because I'm unhappy with the price trend of Eastman 5222. Look at their website (Orwo's) for the specs on UN-54. It's about as simple as a film emulsion can get and still certainly better than the emulsions used to produce some of the greatest images made in the twentieth century. So I have no worries there. There will always be film because there will always be people willing to buy it and people willing to make it to turn a buck. Why does this Chicken-Little-travesty keep getting mentioned in forums? Do photo-enthusiasts not understand human nature and ECON-101?

If you acknowledge that people choose to shoot film for different reasons then the finances of the digital depreciation zone is a non-starter for some of those people (perhaps a lot of them), except they know they will eventually be able to pick up "your" digital camera at a fire sale price. Beyond that I believe the equation is too complex and wasteful of (my) time and energy.

thanks
s-a

 

[maddoc]

I am also interested into ORWO N74 but could not find it yet in 100ft rolls ... UN54 is great, especially developed in R09.

 

[Ranchu]

Wouldn't mind seeing an example!

🙂

 

[semi-ambivalent]

I am also interested into ORWO N74 but could not find it yet in 100ft rolls ... UN54 is great, especially developed in R09.

http://www.orwona.com/b-w-motion-picture-camera-films/

has 11 100'x35mm spools in stock. That's the 12 I saw today minus the one I bought. 🙂

thanks,
s-a

 

[Tom A]

Both the Orwo 74 as a 400 iso and the Orwo UN 54 as a 100 iso work well. The Orwo 74 is in some ways a better emulsion than the XX, a true 400 iso film and works very well in MQ developers like D76/ID 11 etc.
The Orwo UN 54 is my "summer time" emulsion - maybe not as good as the old EK 5321 Kodak +X movie stock, sadly discontinued though, but not far off. I stocked up on it last year 1600 ft and still have 1200 ft left. I have enough XX left for a while (6000 ft), but when that is done I am switching to Orwo 74.
TriX is still a great film - but when prices start climbing too high, I look for alternatives. I go through 500+ rolls a year and that is significant money. Still some Arista 400 Premium in the freezer (2-300 rolls) which I bought when it was $ 2.09/roll!
There is also a "dogs breakfast" of 100ft rolls in the freezer, ranging from Technical Pan to Fuji Presto 400 - and a small hoard of Neopan 1600 (i think about 40 rolls). I am set for the next 2-3 years - but I will start stocking up in 12-18 month. When I can see the back wall of the freezer - I get nervous!

 

[kiemchacsu]

Both the Orwo 74 as a 400 iso and the Orwo UN 54 as a 100 iso work well. The Orwo 74 is in some ways a better emulsion than the XX, a true 400 iso film and works very well in MQ developers like D76/ID 11 etc.
The Orwo UN 54 is my "summer time" emulsion - maybe not as good as the old EK 5321 Kodak +X movie stock, sadly discontinued though, but not far off. I stocked up on it last year 1600 ft and still have 1200 ft left. I have enough XX left for a while (6000 ft), but when that is done I am switching to Orwo 74.
TriX is still a great film - but when prices start climbing too high, I look for alternatives. I go through 500+ rolls a year and that is significant money. Still some Arista 400 Premium in the freezer (2-300 rolls) which I bought when it was $ 2.09/roll!
There is also a "dogs breakfast" of 100ft rolls in the freezer, ranging from Technical Pan to Fuji Presto 400 - and a small hoard of Neopan 1600 (i think about 40 rolls). I am set for the next 2-3 years - but I will start stocking up in 12-18 month. When I can see the back wall of the freezer - I get nervous!

I like very much your theory about stocking films.
Cheers!

 

[maddoc]

http://www.orwona.com/b-w-motion-picture-camera-films/

has 11 100'x35mm spools in stock. That's the 12 I saw today minus the one I bought. 🙂

thanks,
s-a

Thanks for the link ! 🙂

 

[zuiko85]

Sounds like yet another 'death spiral'. The price goes up. That drives demand down. Ever smaller product runs drive prices up. Even more people leave product on shelf etc.

Production finally reaches unstainable low level.

 

[btgc]

When I think about it, then prices may move people from one emulsion to another - which isn't bad thing. If someone says film is dead, it will be dead as also Sun will burn out - right so, everything has to change, why film using habits shouldn't? With digital sensors and look change from camera to camera, so also film users can adapt.

 

[van_d]

Is Arista Premium 400 still TriX ? (I will buy some more 400 ISO trix-like film in a year, as I am now down to my last 400 rolls of my 1.89$/roll stock)

They were as of last summer. I don't see why it'd be different now.

 

[slidesandthecity]

Sounds like yet another 'death spiral'. The price goes up. That drives demand down. Ever smaller product runs drive prices up. Even more people leave product on shelf etc.

Production finally reaches unstainable low level.

Sounds more like demand is going up and KA is trying to find out, how much film shooters are willing to pay for their products at a given price to increase/maximize profit.
As this would not sound too good in a press release, they tell us something about dropped demand and a higher silver price.

 

[Ansel]

Prices are fairly stable here. Ilford and Kodak about the same price - both seem to be making healthy profits so nothing to worry about.

 

[lynnb]

Australians have always been ripped off with film prices. The internet allowed price transparency so now I'd guess most regular film shooters buy from overseas, where savings can typically be 30-50%, including postage.

I'm grateful to earlier posters for giving me some pointers to other films that may meet my needs if prices continue to rise.

Here's a comparison of Freestyle vs Vanbar Imaging, a large photo warehouse in Sydney. Vanbar prices are typically a few dollars cheaper than most retail shops (although it's very hard to find any retail camera stores that stock bw film or Portra).

Tri-X 400

Freestyle (USD) prices:
135-36 - $4.39 (currently discounted 20%)
100' - $89.99

Vanbar Australia (converted to USD) prices:
135-36 - $8.49
100' - $144.85
==========
HP5+

Freestyle (USD) prices:
135-36 - $5.59
100' - $64.99

Vanbar Australia HP5+ prices
135-36 - $13.29 a roll, but currently discounted to $20.45 for 3 rolls
100' roll - $92

Edit: moral of the story: if you're visiting Australia, stock up on film before you leave!

 

[Keith]

Australians have always been ripped off with film prices. The internet allowed price transparency so now I'd guess most regular film shooters buy from overseas, where savings can typically be 30-50%, including postage.

I'm grateful to earlier posters for giving me some pointers to other films that may meet my needs if prices continue to rise.

Here's a comparison of Freestyle vs Vanbar Imaging, a large photo warehouse in Sydney. Vanbar prices are typically a few dollars cheaper than most retail shops (although it's very hard to find any retail camera stores that stock bw film or Portra).

Tri-X 400

Freestyle (USD) prices:
135-36 - $4.39 (currently discounted 20%)
100' - $89.99

Vanbar Australia (converted to USD) prices:
135-36 - $8.49
100' - $144.85
==========
HP5+

Freestyle (USD) prices:
135-36 - $5.59
100' - $64.99

Vanbar Australia HP5+ prices
135-36 - $13.29 a roll, but currently discounted to $20.45 for 3 rolls
100' roll - $92

Edit: moral of the story: if you're visiting Australia, stock up on film before you leave!

The price of film in this country is bull$hit ... our dollar has been strong against most currencies for quite some time now.

Luckily I have quite a stash in the freezer for the occasion when I decide I need to give the digicams a rest and return to the hallowed silver halide! 😀

 

[Steve M.]

Tri-X alternatives? I wish there were one! Yep, I know....Fuji Neopan 400 (discontinued) and HP5. Neither are Tri-X in my place. Good to be sure, but not Tri-X. We're really lucky in the U.S, for now, because Freestyle still has the film for 4 bucks a roll in 24 exp and just $4.39 in 36 after their 20% rebate.

My suggestion is that a lot of us, including me, should sell some gear or otherwise beg, borrow, or steal some money and stock up on this, because it ain't going down in price from here on out. Kodak Alaris has already clearly stated in no uncertain terms that their film production decisions will be based on professional and consumer buying of film. This is a real bean counter mentality over there, and nothing like Kodak's past commitment to film photography, so use it or lose it. Kodak may have had some stupid people in marketing their products, but they used to be peopled by photography enthusiasts w/ a dedication to quality.

My order goes in today. These credit cards....you don't have to pay them back, right? Well, you only live once.

 

[semi-ambivalent]

Sounds like yet another 'death spiral'. The price goes up. That drives demand down. Ever smaller product runs drive prices up. Even more people leave product on shelf etc.

Production finally reaches unstainable low level.

Whew, at first I thought you were talking about DSLRs...

thanks,
s-a

 

[Aristophanes]

The Japanese Yen has lost considerable value since mid-2013, which likely has a direct bearing on the title of this thread. New batches (2014) will be priced according to currents exchange rates.

Film manufacturers used to have facilities widespread in regions/nations to hedge against currency valuations, but no more.

 

[k__43]

Maco is selling Kentmere 400 for 2€ (ordering 10 rolls or more). That makes loading bulk film almost silly. I never tried Kentmere and would sure as hell rather like to shoot Tri-X.
My preferred film is Neopan400 which is the most expensive iso400 b/w film here right now. I still have 30 rolls or more, but I don't know if I buy again when they are gone. It is very special and I'd pay more but I'm not sure really if that much more is ok (especially since it used to be cheaper than Ilford and Kodak iso 400 films)