Like who? Just wondering...
Kodak's down? Tri-X will survive...
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Like who? Just wondering...
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
Well, there's always Lucky out of China... it's hardly Portra, but hey, it's something. 🙄
Neare
Well-known
Sure, these are the ones that I'm aware of that have a colour film range in production (not including kodak):
lucky, agfa, ferrania, lomo rebranded stuff, mitsubishi, sunny and fuji.
Dylan Hope
Established
The way I see it is if Kodak goes down, someone is going to try and buy their film formulas/patents off them. Arista rebrands Tri-X and could only sell off old stock for so long.
Kodak would have nothing to lose by selling its film formulas if their film division was deemed superfluous, despite it being the only thing generating decent income if I recall correctly.
Either way though, I'm prepared. If Kodak does go down for good, I'm just going to switch from Tri-X and XTOL to HP5 and DD (Or is it DD-X? I forget which one is Ilford's answer to XTOL).
Kodak would have nothing to lose by selling its film formulas if their film division was deemed superfluous, despite it being the only thing generating decent income if I recall correctly.
Either way though, I'm prepared. If Kodak does go down for good, I'm just going to switch from Tri-X and XTOL to HP5 and DD (Or is it DD-X? I forget which one is Ilford's answer to XTOL).
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Not unless they get the entire production line and key staff members along with it. Patents aren't that important, film is pretty old technology, and by now even the T-crystal patents must be expired. As far as formulas and patents go you could rebuild any Kodak film of eighties vintage from library knowledge and without violating a patent. But it is nowhere as easy as that, or everybody would have been reproducing the most popular film of the competition back when they still were billions to be made in CN film manufacture. The secrets to film casting are in the unwritten details and fine tuning of the production process. And duplicating these has often failed even in-house - many films "never were the same again" after being moved to a more modern facility or after a key staff member retired.
Adox have experienced two years of delays with their APX 400 relaunch, and even though they are getting closer nobody would be surprised about a third. And they did more than you proposed - beyond the original Agfa patents and documents they do employ the original Agfa engineers and even a former Agfa plant. Their main issue is that they have a different (more modern and generally superior) former Agfa casting line in a new building, rather than the old one Agfa used for their b&w film...
In a nutshell: It is not possible to simply buy the rights to a film. If the films are to continue, someone will have to buy Kodak production lines along with the rights to the product, hire the original staff, and continue production before the machinery starts to crumble and the staff starts to forget its unwritten routines. Or other makers will pick the latest still valid patents and use them to improve their own product - which might mean goodbye Tri-X, welcome HP5++!
jarski
Veteran
thx Sevo. this reminds me a bit discussion when news about Kodachrome's death broke into Interwebs. I understood it was near-impossible film to re-produce, once cancelled. but thought then that B&W films such has Tri-X would not have to go same path, if corporate/money issues caused hiccups in production.. 🙁
Dylan Hope
Established
Well then, guess it's not as simple as I thought. I knew the staff was just as important as the formula, but I had no idea that Adox was having issues reviving APX even with the original staffers manning the machines. I'm going to mull this over, thanks.
Still, I have hopes for the film division at Kodak even if I'd save a bit of money buying bulk loads of HP5 3-packs.
SuperUJ
Well-known
Well put, that's why whoever is going to continue the film production of Kodak, they should basically take over the operation as I previously suggested. Impossible Project started just in time to save some (not all) machines of Polaroid. I had talked to them before its products became available. The 4x5 machine was destroyed before Impossible Project took over. So, we will have to wait for a very long time before we can have the equivalent of Type 55, etc. to revive, if it would ever happen. The lesson learned here is to act fast enough to keep the film production going and keep the staff.
I can care less of the Kodak brand, but the model names, Tri-X, TMax, Portra are the keepers for sure.
The syndication may start with a private equity fund company (similar to Blackstone purchased the minority stake in Leica), who will then raise fund from corporates/individuals. With sufficient participants, the private equity fund company will approach Kodak for a business proposal. I would doubt the plan will attract corporations as they tends to look for business expansion after acquisition. The film shooters (us) on the other hand just look for keeping the same product mix and let the different geographical locations run their courses. It's more like a co-op.
As Kodak is preparing for filing Chapter 11 restructuring, they should open for any way to raise fund to pay off its debt, or at least keep the cash flow. In order to get things going, we will need a lawyer who is specialized in merger and acquisition. Then have the lawyer reach out to a private equity fund company.
John
claacct
Well-known
In photoshop plug-in...
Jamie123
Veteran
As Sevo has described, taking over production from Kodak is no simple matter. You can fantasize all you want about how exactly such a thing could be accomplished but the fact of the matter is simply that we have no idea what will happen. There is good possibility that Kodak will go bankrupt and that that will be the end of it. No more Kodak Portra, no more Ektar, no more whatever.
SuperUJ
Well-known
You may see the glass half empty. Based on what WSJ reported, Kodak is preparing for Chapter 11 protection, not Chapter 7. Most major airlines has done that and they are still flying. So, the clock for Portra, Ektar, Tri X and TMax does not just stop, not yet.
There are dreamers and think of possibilities. And there are people imagining the days without Tri X and Portra. That's why I like the path that Impossible Project has taken and the selection of the company name. It's sad to see the American dream restarted in the Netherlands.
John
f6andBthere
Well-known
That would be my gut feeling. None of the other current film manufactureres will be interested in Kodak's film line because they'll be fully aware that there is going to be quite a space to fill with their product when Kodak is finally gone ... if and when this happens.
As someone pointed out in a previous post there is a lot of necessary expertise involved in making these films and that won't automatically be bundled with the purchase of Kodak's film line I wouldn't think.
Cyriljay
Leica Like
I think it the same way! Whatever happens I cross my two fingers and say Kodak will survive and I am ready to pay my fare share too.