Konica Auto S2 vs. Minolta Hi-matic 9 vs. Canonet QL-17 GIII vs. Yashica GSN

[indesertum]

I'm looking at
Konica Auto S2
Konica Auto S3
Minolta Hi-matic 9
Canonet QL17 GIII
Yashica Electro 35 GSN/GTN
Olympus 35RC

So I've spent the past two weeks reading absolutely everything I can about all of these. I'm looking for a cheap (ie not Hexar, not Leica, not Contax IIIA, not Voigtlander. Although I would absolutely love to shoot with them, I have little money for the body and for their lenses) rangefinder to shoot outside. I'd like a fast lens and aperture priority AE (although I hear shutter priority can do everything and more). I know their specifications, but I would like comparisons from people who actually own them. I am slightly tending toward the GSN, but I've heard good things about all of them. I just can't decide. Also, I'm open to additional suggestions. I found a couple threads discussing them, but not too many discussing their differences. If I haven't searched hard enough, please show me thread with more info. Thanks.

 

[richiedcruz]

I find that I prefer my Minolta to my Canonet. It's really more a matter of personal preference than anything else. I find the Hi-matic 9's aperture and shutter controls to be easier for me to manipulate, plus its heavier build makes it much easier for me to hold at low speeds.

When I was still putting batteries in it, the Minolta's meter was almost foolproof and turned out very well exposed slides. The Minolta has a much longer winding stroke than the Canonet, but I got used to it. Their viewfinders look equally bright and easy to focus to me. I have never done a back-to-back comparison of their lenses, but I find myself hard pressed to notice any real difference between them.

Richie

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I had the Canonet and the GSN, and sold the GSN. Both are GREAT cameras. But I think the Canon's lens is marginally better, and it's much smaller, which I like. I preferred the aperture priority of the Yashica, but was surprised to find I didn't mind shutter priority at all. All your apertures are right in front of you in the viewfinder...you just adjust shutter speed until the needle points to the aperture you want.

Here are a couple of QL-17 pics

 

[hans voralberg]

Yashica GSN is great, but big, so definitely not on the list if you want a small one. I've only use it and the Canonet, and prefer the Canon for size, that's all.

 

[NickTrop]

The GSN is the best photographic tool for rangefinder-style photography.

1. Fastest in operation
2. Very competent lens, fast f1.7.
3. Aperture Priority (To me this is huge...)
4. Ability to premeter with top lights (another great deal for RF photography)
5. Has the BEST meter. "Pretty sure" meter range is EV -1 to EV 16 at ASA 100. More sensitive than any other fixed lens camera.
6. Settings for speeds up to ASA 1000
6a. You can set ASA in quarter stops - 800, 640, 560, 400 (something like that, my GSN is at work...) This is the only - as far as I can tell, fixed lens RF that gives you this level of control over film speed and has the highest range (ASA 1000) of the classic FLRFs, and the best meter sensitivity.)
7. Stepless shutter that can meter a scene and stay open over 30 secs.
8. Takes standard, available batteries, no issue with zinc batteries or adjusting ASA...
9. Cheapest of the bunch, which is why they undervalued and not taken seriously.

The GSN is a serious photographic tool. It's the best RF ever made, which includes Leicas, from a "total package" standpoint and features standpoint. It is the best of your choices for rangefinder-style photography far and away.


The Konica Auto S3 is tiny, black, may be expensive, is shutter priority only, but has a truly wicked lens. (I have one of these)

If you want a small camera and all manual control and don't care about f2.8 "slow" lens - get the RC. (Don't have this one...)

I never liked the Canons all that much, personally. Don't like the feel of them. But it's small and gives you unmetered manual along with shutter priority.

If you want a great camera with manual control and a great lens, Konica S2. (Don't have this one, but recommended one for a friend who let me play with it - great camera)...

A lot of people like the Minoltas too but, like the Yashica Minsters, they always seemed kinda "mundane" to me from a features standpoint, so I never bothered when there are other more interesting choices for this type of camera (Auto S3 know for its lens, tiny; Electro - aperture priority; Konica S2, manual with great lens; Lynx 14, all manual with F1.4 lens etc...)

Your options are all over the board. It's tough to pick a winner here. I say go for a GSN or a Konica Auto S2 or the RC if you don't mind f2.8. That'll only set you back 20-50 bucks and you can pick up some of the more expensive ones (Auto S3, or the Canon) later.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The Yashica GSN/GTN is the only one listed that has aperture priority. It uses an electronic shutter, and the mechanism has some failure points. Buy one from someone who has used it, and will vouch for its operating condition. Otherwise you can run into problems. That is true of all the cameras listed, and I've seeen plenty of mechanical failures in all of the models you've listed. I've also bought an as-is, untested Yashica GT that was older and it worked just fine.

 

[Al Patterson]

I like both the GSN and the QL17. You can't go wrong with either one.

 

[ully]

I have a Konica S2, Minolta Himatic 7, Yashica GT and GSN and the Oly 35RC.
I think I like the picture quality from the GSN the best and the Konica S2 for all over features but I like the Oly 35RC as the best for portability and general use.

 

[Steve Bellayr]

I think Nick Trop quite a lot. You will find that it will depend more on availability and condition. I recommend that you obtain one that is working from someone that appears reputable. Be prepared to pay extra for that cconsideration. About a week ago a Minolta 7sII, another good model, went for $145 + $25 for shippin on ebay. Another consideration for me is the f-stop. I would not seriously consider anything with an f2.8, too slow. As for the Yashica Lynx 14 its rangefinder patch is small & it took me almost a year to locate any hood that would fit. The Yashica GSN uses 55mm Hama Hood while the Canonet uses the 49mm hood with minor modification. You might want to check webercamera if you are interested in a Konica. He repairs and sells them. Also, watch this site as those models show up.

 

[JeffGreene]

I like the GSN (I have 2) and the Konica S2. I have an Oly RC, but it required a CLA and is due to return from John Hermanson within the next week. As others have stated it's not the camera for low light, but has a wickedly sharp lens that delivers surprising results. As Nick indicated, if you are looking for a low light camera the Yashica 14e with its 1.4 lens is a good camera, although its lens is subject to flare and always requires a hood. Brian's advice is excellent; there's no one else on this board who better understands the internals of these cameras. If you can, purchase your camera from someone who can vouch for it that is the way to go. I purchased my 14e directly from Mark Hama in Atlanta, who used to service Yashicas. Nuff said! 🙄

 

[Bingley]

The Konica S2 has a superb and fast lens, quite contrasty IMO for a lens of its era. It also has a superb vf. Also, it meters in manual as well as shutter-priority mode. I think it's a camera worthy of serious consideration, and good ones can be found for under $50.

That said, my S2 often stays at home in favor of the Canonet Q17 GIII. I love that little thing, it has a lovely, sharp 40mm lens, and it is really nicely finished with a solid feel for such a small camera body. It also has a very, very quiet shutter, which makes it an outstanding shooter for street photography. I think of my Canonet as a poor man's Leica CL -- they're about the same size -- and I love the way the lens performs w/ color film. Haven't shot a lot of b&w through it, but recent results are promising.

 

[Anupam]

Konica S2 / Minolta Hi-Matic 9 - too big
Konica S2 / Yashica electros - auto exposure only - I wouldn't touch an AE only camera for anything but snap-shooting - or if you can't meter on your own
Oly RC - slower lens
So it's the Canonet by a nose. I'd also look at the Oly RD and Minolta 7s II

 

[jan normandale]

here are links to the Canonet, GSN, and the RC. All strong performing lenses. The ergonomics on each is significantly different. I like the Canonet , GSN then RC for handling ease. All are easy to hold so it's a personal preference. I'd suggest you choose one and start shooting. The ticket is not too high for any of these last I looked all are sub $100. I can't comment on the Konica's , I had the Minolta 7s II and it's usually over $100 , nice camera but for the price premium I'm not sure it doesn't deliver anything the three below do

here's the links to the images

http://flickr.com/photos/jann/514268069/
Canonet QL17 GIII

http://flickr.com/photos/jann/73826185/
Yashica Electro 35 GSN/GTN

http://flickr.com/photos/jann/56806046/
Olympus 35RC

 

[camera.bear]

In addition to reading up on these cameras, if there is a vintage camera store in your area, I would go and take a look at these cameras.. Get a hands on idea of which fits and feels best to you. Check out the local antiques malls as well. I was able to get a look at a GSN at the local antique mall and handling it and looking through the viewfinder helped me decide that it was not the camera for me.

I have gotten a Hi-Matic 9 and a Canonet G-III QL. Both outstanding cameras with unique attributes. The Canonet is compact and easy to take along with great closer focusing than the rest. The Hi-Matic 9 is built like a tank, but is silky smooth in its operation and I like having metered manual with it. Pictures from both can be seen on my Flickr.com photostream.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/camerabear/

I have also succumbed to the call of the Hi-Matic 7sII. There is one on its way to me and should be here next week. I got lucky and won it on eBay when the auction was ending in the middle of the day in the middle of the week. There was only one other person bidding at that time and I got in the last bid. I hope that it is as outstanding as people are saying it is because as noted it wasn't cheap.

Whichever you choose from among these cameras, you will have a fine piece of photography equipment. It all comes down to what fits your needs.

 

[NickTrop]

So, there you have it. Strong recommendations for every camera on your list. The members of RFF are glad to be of service 🙄

 

[indesertum]

Wow. The replies have been amazing so far. You guys have been extremely helpful, although I'm still not too sure which one I should get. They're cheap enough that I could probably buy a couple of them and see which one I like. I think as suggested, I'll check out the local antique mall first, and see if they have any. Anyways, thanks a lot.

 

[DaveW]

Some Comparison Shots

Some Comparison Shots

Here are some comparison of several of the cameras mentioned along with a few others for comparison:
This first shot shows from left to right and front to back:
Olympus 35 RC, Olympus SP, Yasicha GSN
Konica S2, Canon GII QL, Hi-matic 7SII

http://www.flickr.com/photos/17331038@N00/2518682874/

Voightlander Vito II, Pentax Me Super, Yashica GSN
Olympus 35 RC, Olympus SP, Kodak Retina II

http://www.flickr.com/photos/17331038@N00/2518682884/

Olympus 35 RC, Minox 35 GT, Yashica GSN

http://www.flickr.com/photos/17331038@N00/2518682888/

Some very brief comments on some features(these are arranged from smallest to largest):

35 RC , A/M, 1/15s - 1/500s and B, 42f2.8
Hi-matic 7SII, A/M, 1/8s - 1/500s and B, 40f1.7
GIII QL A/M, 1/4s - 1/500s and B, 40f1.7
35 SP A/M, 1s - 1/500s and B, 42f1.7
S2 A/M, 1s - 500s and B, 45f1.8
GSN A, (30s to 1/500s and B), 45f1.7

The RC and Hi-Matic 7SII are pretty similar in size as are the S2 and the GSN. What really makes the later 2 large is the size of the lens - much bigger than the others.

Of the large ones, the S2 is unique in that the bright lines in the viewfinder move to correct for parallax.

All are good cameras! My favorite of the larger ones is the Olympus SP, for smaller use, Minolta Hi-matic 7SII. YMMV

For comparison of features, visit:

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/

Dave

 

[pesphoto]

Couldnt agree more.......GSN!

The GSN is the best photographic tool for rangefinder-style photography.

1. Fastest in operation
2. Very competent lens, fast f1.7.
3. Aperture Priority (To me this is huge...)
4. Ability to premeter with top lights (another great deal for RF photography)
5. Has the BEST meter. "Pretty sure" meter range is EV -1 to EV 16 at ASA 100. More sensitive than any other fixed lens camera.
6. Settings for speeds up to ASA 1000
6a. You can set ASA in quarter stops - 800, 640, 560, 400 (something like that, my GSN is at work...) This is the only - as far as I can tell, fixed lens RF that gives you this level of control over film speed and has the highest range (ASA 1000) of the classic FLRFs, and the best meter sensitivity.)
7. Stepless shutter that can meter a scene and stay open over 30 secs.
8. Takes standard, available batteries, no issue with zinc batteries or adjusting ASA...
9. Cheapest of the bunch, which is why they undervalued and not taken seriously.

The GSN is a serious photographic tool. It's the best RF ever made, which includes Leicas, from a "total package" standpoint and features standpoint. It is the best of your choices for rangefinder-style photography far and away.


The Konica Auto S3 is tiny, black, may be expensive, is shutter priority only, but has a truly wicked lens. (I have one of these)

If you want a small camera and all manual control and don't care about f2.8 "slow" lens - get the RC. (Don't have this one...)

I never liked the Canons all that much, personally. Don't like the feel of them. But it's small and gives you unmetered manual along with shutter priority.

If you want a great camera with manual control and a great lens, Konica S2. (Don't have this one, but recommended one for a friend who let me play with it - great camera)...

A lot of people like the Minoltas too but, like the Yashica Minsters, they always seemed kinda "mundane" to me from a features standpoint, so I never bothered when there are other more interesting choices for this type of camera (Auto S3 know for its lens, tiny; Electro - aperture priority; Konica S2, manual with great lens; Lynx 14, all manual with F1.4 lens etc...)

Your options are all over the board. It's tough to pick a winner here. I say go for a GSN or a Konica Auto S2 or the RC if you don't mind f2.8. That'll only set you back 20-50 bucks and you can pick up some of the more expensive ones (Auto S3, or the Canon) later.

 

[NickTrop]

Couldnt agree more.......GSN!

In use...

I was shooting a Fujica Compact Deluxe today. One of my favorite cameras, mainly because I like the signature of its lens, especially for black and white. (Reminds me a little like the Summar believe it or not, but sharper. For whatever reason, the lens on this thing has pretty solid "3D effect".) - and I just like its ergonomics a lot. However, I was shooting my son having his a hair cut at an old-fashioned barber shop. I wanted low depth of field - you know, foreground "white" barbary-stuff out of focus, same for the background... But I wanted the subject to be sharp. No flash, of course. (Perish the thought.) Ambient light. 400 speed XP2 Super in the camera - would have shot this at f4. Nice and sharp, nicely blurred background (but not so much that the images are unintelligible...)

To get "f4" I had to either play with the shutter speed - 1/15th?, 1/30? 1/60? in shutter priority. Moved to get a different angle - raise camera to eye, depress shutter release 1/2-way to see what aperture it's deciding on. Subject moved, barber's now in front of my kid. Crap. Now it's 1/30 from this angle... This camera has a manual capabilities but that's even slower. I could have guessed, but guessing is guessing - sometimes right, sometimes wrong.

With the GSN, I would have walked around the room, "maybe" used the lights on the top plate to get the aperture range, set the f-stop at f4. Shoot away, moving all around, not worry about lighting too much, and the stepless shutter would have given me the shutter speed I wanted - to the second, not the stop. If I wanted more shallow DOF, I would have set it at f2.8, say - or 2.0 or whatever. I could check the top plate to see if I'm out of range for hand-held. I could have moved all around the room, got whatever DOF effect I wanted, and click away and not miss compositions of human subject I wanted in real time because I'm too busy checking to see what aperture the camera is selecting.

It also has a more sensitive meter than other RFs, can take film speed up to 1000 (not 400 or 800), and you can rate your 800 speed film at 640, 520 (something like that) like modern cameras...

Nobody mentions this when they talk about other cameras. It's got a standard 6 element, 4 group 45mm double gauss (I'm a "50" shooter, so I prefer this to the wides...), they basically all have the same lens design. They're all good - variances in signature but sharp. This class of camera didn't have exotic glass, I'm sure, and the coating technology is 1960's... All good, but there are differences in signature. They all flare, but I love the look of a standard 50 (or 45)mm double gauss planar lens, and there's no need to spend a ton of dough on one - you actually have to go out of your way to find a bad one.

People balk about its size but it blows everything else ways except the Lynx 14 for fast ambient light candids. And to me, a camera that can do this, and do it quickly, is the test of a good camera. The GSN is NOT just a "light tight box"... It's one of the rare times the camera itself actually adds value. Maybe it's me, but that's why I like these cameras - fast ambient light candid people photos. It's why these cameras - 30, 40 years after they're made are still relevant.

You can shoot with any old camera outside in bright light...

 

[jan normandale]

Um Nick... how many of these are in your "hobby room" ? : D