Konica Minolta is history

[ch1]

Nikon remains at the cutting edge of "imaging" (that hurts) technology. Their cameras are state of the art, their market share is significant, and they are competitively priced (Leica's biggest mistake). I think I will be correct to say that they are profitable. They are a "little" fish compared to Sony and Canon, but they have always been so. Again, this hurts, but their discontinuation of film cameras actually is a strong position for them to take, again an action to focus on the profitable portion of their business.

rover,

Lets not forget that Nikon is continuing production of the F6 and, via Cosina, the "badging" of the FM10. What disappoints me about the film side decision is that they cut the F100 loose (this means no pro-level AF "backup body" to the F6).

Eliminating the N-line (F w/ low numbers in EUR) makes sense since the vast bulk of "prosumers" have gone digital so keeping the N's would only "eat into" the D-50/D-70 market.

Last night I was at a business group panel presentation. They had an "official" pro photog there. He was shooting a F5 with flash for the "official" shots of the panelists and then switched over to a F100 (probably loaded with Tri-X or similar) to take available lights shots of the audience.

It was nice to hear the whirr of the motor drive and see a film camera still being used by a pro! 🙂

George

 

[Little Prince]

Agree Sockeyed. I'm a little saddened too, though I don't like to take these things to heart. I had been tempted by all those cameras you name before I settled on the CLE. In fact they (and the R2a) were the only contenders.

 

[Bobbo]

Let's not forget that it took Nikon 11 years to update their meter-coupling system to the type used by Minolta since 1966. And Canon fans--remember the T80?. The first Japanese SLR to hit the US market with a pentaprism and autodiaphragm operation was Miranda in 1955.

Let's see, other than having to turn the aperture ring when you mount the lens, the non-AI system isn't as bad as people make it out to be. They only changed it so it would be easier to make Apertyre-Priority Autoexposure (compared to the DS-12 that physically turned the aperture ring on the F2). It also took 11 years for Minolta to come out with something that could even be considered a pro camera after the Nikon F came out in 1959 (the XM of 1971...and add another 5 years for a 3.5fps motor drive, and then don't try to make another pro camera until the mid 1990's and then don't maket it)

The T-80 was a stop-gag before Canon could get the EOS series up and running, and Canon didn't keep it a secret (go read a late 1985 Modern Photography...don't know which one off the top of my head). Compare a Maxxum 7000 to an EOS 620 and see which is better. Compare a Minolta 7xi to a Canon A2e. Compare a Minolta 9 to an EOS 1vHS.

Yes, the Miranda was first, but the first one to be feature-laiden and reliable enough for por use was the Nikon F...the one camera that did more to kill rangefinders as the camera of choice for pros than any other.


Anywho, I never liked Konica film. I never liked Minolta bodies. The lens choices were pretty bad as well, and overpriced compared to Nikon or Canon (a 70-200/2.8 for Canon is $800 less than a Minolta, and an IS one is still $100 less than a non-stablized Minolta). I never liked Minolta's digital SLRs. It was too little, too late.

Then again, I never liked Contax SLRs, Kodak paper, Agfa film, or cheap Nikons...

Oh, as for the Leica R3/4/5/6/7, they cost too much and the early ones were not very reliable. Why pay $400 for a clean used R4 when you can get a nice Nikon F2 for $200 with cheaper and more plentiful good glass?


The Voigtslander name is just that...a name. The name of a non-competitive company from the early 20th century that was bought out by Zeiss. The name wasn't a very valuble one if they sold it to some Japanese company. Stick a Nikon name on a cosina body and you get a FM-10. Stick a Canon name, you get a T60, and an Olympus name it's an OM2000. Turn it into a rangefinder, it's a Zeiss Ikon.

 

[rover]

Like you say George, the FM 10 really doesn't play into the equation because it is made by Cosina. I suspect the F6 will be hard for Nikon to let go because it is an F (really the pinnacle of 35mm film photography too). There is a real niche for you. THE professional film camera for when digital just won't do. As Nikon is an ikon (poor pun there) in the main stream photography industry now, the F is Nikon's ikon (it just gets worst 😉). It will be nice to see the price of the D50/D70/Rebel XT fall a little more too. A first strike against Sony.

 

[yossarian]

jaapv, Sorry, I forget what an international group this is and how poorly some of our colloquiallisms actually communicate. I did, in fact mean the financial position of the company, not any physical resemblance of their products.

I am pleased to see that a few of you seem to share my belief that the passing of any
significant manufacturer, whatever the product, does not warrant derisive comments
about said manufacturer. Don't think I'm equating Minolta with Duesenberg, but think back on some of the names no longer represented. NSU is long gone, but they developed the Wankel engine technology which put Mazda on the map.

I guess I'm just not a "what have you done for me lately?" sort of guy. Every camera manufacturer, past or present, has some models they wish they'd kept off the market. And nearly every one has at least one genuine triumph of design or
engineering. I don't know whether Leitz or Minolta was most responsible for the
superb XE-7 (U.S. designation)--does it really matter?

 

[rover]

By the way, if all this talk makes anyone want to sell their old MC or MD lenses and bodies shoot me a PM. 😀

 

[sf]

Man, the more I read of these things, like this and Nikon's quitting the film camera business . . . the more I fear that our optimisms are merely pleasant dreams. Oh well, it has been said by someone here, that our film producers will continue to produce film for some time to come. Which is long enough for me to buy a lifetime supply of everything I need. Just as soon as I get a job.

 

[nwcanonman]

But at least Fuji Film Corp. has reaffirmed their support of film photographers in their news today! God Bless 'em ~ ; - )
http://home.fujifilm.com/news/n060119_2.html

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

And don't forget the Leica R3 and R4-5-6-7 series. Minolta-based.

Actually, Minolta-helped, not Minolta-based. The Minolta XD and XE have similar technologies as the R3 and R4 and vice-versa. It's been a love-hate relationship between Leica and Minolta.

Well...was 🙁 Minolta had some great stuff; legendary RF equipment.

 

[Penguin_101]

I wonder what the prices will do - new and used?

 

[ch1]

Like you say George, the FM 10 really doesn't play into the equation because it is made by Cosina. I suspect the F6 will be hard for Nikon to let go because it is an F (really the pinnacle of 35mm film photography too). There is a real niche for you. THE professional film camera for when digital just won't do. As Nikon is an ikon (poor pun there) in the main stream photography industry now, the F is Nikon's ikon (it just gets worst 😉). It will be nice to see the price of the D50/D70/Rebel XT fall a little more too. A first strike against Sony.

rover,

I am sooo close to buying a F6 - yet I am scared to do so because I have to worry that it is the last film Nikon. My angst - I'll resolve it.

As to dropping the prices of the D50/D70 (and Canon's Rebel) I'm not sure that is the way CaNikon will go.

My guess is that Sony is taking out K-M to eliminate a DSLR line and put theirEVF in a better marketing position.

I know one thing - if I were in charge of prod development at Nikon - I be truning those CoolPix cameras into EVFs!

Interesting times for sure.

George

 

[DougK]

Ironically, the only good EVF I've ever seen was on the Konica Minolta Dimage A2... 922,000 pixels. It was not quite as good as an optical viewfinder, but very, very good nonetheless. Too bad more companies haven't taken a cue from that.

 

[peter_n]

But at least Fuji Film Corp. has reaffirmed their support of film photographers in their news today! God Bless 'em ~ ; - )
http://home.fujifilm.com/news/n060119_2.html

You know, I've never really thoght of a press release as a Beautiful Thing, but that one certainly is! 😀 I'm really glad I'm a Neopan guy! 🙂

 

[rover]

Well, here is to Minolta...

 

[Bertram2]

i dislike sony!

anyone here have their computer wrecked because of the spyware program sony had on their cd's and dvd's?
i don't like how they market or overprice their products.
i'll miss minolta, even konica minolta but i'll never buy sony!

I'd never buy a Sony SLR either, I don't trust
in their products anymore. Too often I have found that they combine
technical frontrunning concerning performance and features with a cheap and
sloppy manufactured hardware , designed for intentional short lifecycles.
They gave the shortest warranty times here before a EU law came.

My first SLR ever was a Minolta SRT101b plus 3 primes and I loved it.
Moving for me to see this name vanish. They lost the pro-market race
against Canon in the 80s already I think and this was the beginning of a
decline, which would have ended now even without the digital hype !

If they weren't top seller it surely had nothing to do with a lack of innnovation and quality but with a lame marketing an sales dept, which did not manage to make Minolta beeing an established pro tool , and so they fought for 30 years against too poor profits from the amateur market and too poor image compared to Nikon and later Canon, which surfed on Nikon's arrogance to the profitable pro market.
Something like a Dynaxx5 or a Dynaxx7 tho could neither Nikon nor Canon offer to their amateurs for a comparable price.

In principle all these news are not surprising bit what we have to expect and the process of consolidation will last on the mass market.

On the other hand there are other news too which confirm that the future film niche market begins to establish itself in the middle of this shit storm:

Zeiss introduces a brandnew RF and a line of new lenses,
Zeiss invests in a series of Nikon lenses,
The Bessa line was successful enuff to justify a second generation with AE,
Nikon keeps a F6 in it's portfolio and Canon sells still film SLRs too
film sales is still runing much better than expected,

and ADOX film is back after some decades ! 🙂 The film receipt was sold to EFKE once, the name ADOX to a Canadian company (N.N.) and now this company has bought EFKE and ADOX film is back, the film I started with when I got my mothers Zeiss Box in 1959. ! I take this lucky reunion as a writing on the wall ! 😀

bertram

 

[ch1]

.....
On the other hand there are other news too which confirm that the future film niche market begins to establish itself in the middle of this shit storm:

Zeiss introduces a brandnew RF and a line of new lenses,
Zeiss invests in a series of Nikon lenses,
The Bessa line was successful enuff to justify a second generation with AE,
Nikon keeps a F6 in it's portfolio and Canon sells still film SLRs too
film sales is still runing much better than expected,

and ADOX film is back after some decades ! 🙂 The film receipt was sold to EFKE once, the name ADOX to a Canadian company (N.N.) and now this company has bought EFKE and ADOX film is back, the film I started with when I got my mothers Zeiss Box in 1959. ! I take this lucky reunion as a writing on the wall ! 😀

bertram

Bertram,

Although we do have different takes on many things - I agree with the points you note up above.

The "shit storm" as you describe it (I might prefer the term "industry shakeout") was long overdue. The "rush" to digital has simply exposed the weak players who were limping along anyway.

I do think that for all of the "bad news" there are some very positive developments too as you've listed above.

None of us has a crystal ball, but I do think that film photography has a future, albeit not as the dominant media, but as a niche market. Just today a NY Times review of the upcoming Sundance Festival pointed out that while most of the entries will likely have been shot in digital format - they will "look like it, too".

It was NOT meant as a flattering comment. The commentator was clearly noting that these "indy cinemas" using digital format suffer greatly in terms of photographic quality. (And yes, digifreaks, I know the technology is "evolving". These are still "crappy" images!)

I don't want to say that I "believe" film has a future - because "belief" is not founded on reason and fact, but on faith. And faith is not logic, it is emotional.

However, I will say that I think it is "reasonable" to expect that film as a media of image reproduction will remain viable, if not dominant, for a long time to come.

Regards,
George
copake_ham

 

[parks5920]

Sony blows the big one!

i dislike sony!

anyone here have their computer wrecked because of the spyware program sony had on their cd's and dvd's?
i don't like how they market or overprice their products.
i'll miss minolta, even konica minolta but i'll never buy sony!

 

[GeneW]

It's an unpleasant thing to see a good line disappear. Several of my friends were shooting SRT-101's and 102's back when I bought my OM-1. I really liked the Minoltas.

We OM veterans experienced a similar thing the day Olympus ceased production of film SLRs.

Gene

 

[phototone]

I think Nikon dropped their film cameras to free up manufacturing space to make more D-SLR's. The F-6 uses many parts also used in the pro-level Nikon D-SLR's, so they can easily keep making that one.

The big question is this...now that Nikon has no medium-level film camera bodies, what is Fuji going to do for its next D-SLR, the last two of which were based on the Nikon N80 body? At one time, Fuji made their own 35mm slr bodies. Wonder if this is where they are going?
It seems that the Fuji D-SLR's are the favorites around here for Wedding and Portrait photographers.

 

[ch1]

I think Nikon dropped their film cameras to free up manufacturing space to make more D-SLR's. The F-6 uses many parts also used in the pro-level Nikon D-SLR's, so they can easily keep making that one.

The big question is this...now that Nikon has no medium-level film camera bodies, what is Fuji going to do for its next D-SLR, the last two of which were based on the Nikon N80 body? At one time, Fuji made their own 35mm slr bodies. Wonder if this is where they are going?
It seems that the Fuji D-SLR's are the favorites around here for Wedding and Portrait photographers.

I think you are "spot on" about freeing up the manufacturing capability. Sensing that Nikon was exiting the mid-range film SLR market I got my wife a N75 for Xmas at a "cheap" price (it's even "cheaper" now! 😀 )

When she started shootiing with it I realized that it counted DOWN on the number of exposures remaining!

Just like a digital does! Freaked me out at first.

Then I realized that the later model Nikon mid-range film SLRs were m/l "digital wannabes" sharing many components with the CoolPix line of digital P&S's

As I noted way up above in an earlier post - the only thing that really distresses me with Nikon's otherwise good strategic move is that they abandoned the F100 as a back-up AF film SLR for the F6.

I understand partly that the F100 is based on an older platform than the F6 (whereas the F5 and F100 were a perfect fit) but w/o an AF "backup-body" to the F6 it's hard to beleive that Nikon will remain committed to film as a photographic medium.

Nonetheless - I think I am going to get a F6!

It will be like getting a Nikon SP way back in the early '60's!

Last of its breed :angel: