Kriegsmarine IIIc

[alphonse2501]

I was look a Chinese forum forum.xitek.com for while and found something interesting:
http://forum.xitek.com/forum-redirect-goto-findpost-ptid-1119647-pid-48185916.html

A Chinese owner posted this Kriegsmarine IIIc +135/4.5+ VIOOH
He claimed all (include body and VIOOH) have Reichsadleren graving.

 

[squareshooter]

Vas is los?

 

[johannielscom]

This is a typical LeicaTom / Jim Lager case.

The Adler-engravings are much debated. Some say they are all fakes, some say that they can be legit but nobody is sure on how to tell the one from the other.

Having the camera or lens examined by the specialist at LeicaShop Vienna is likely the most certainty one can get. The only certainty AFAIK.

If it's legit, it's a dream kit (with all parts being engraved) and will command BIG bucks.

 

[johannielscom]

Nice.

Anybody that can read Chinese, from the original link?


And also:

• anybody that can identify the book? The camera is in it, image 116 on page 27.
  Could it be the book that was released in China after last years big exhibition on Leica gear in Shanghai or Beijing?
  
• What is that really interesting thumb lever, that is attached to the camera? Is that a Leitz accessory? If so, what is its code word?

 

[alphonse2501]

Hi, Bob:
This is roughly translation from owner's reply:


(Owner said) he has saw all thee book that published by James Lager, and there have some details and pictures need to correct.

Here is photo of owner and James Lager, Mr. James would know is at right.
http://i.imgur.com/9C5ODz2.jpg

Also owner wants to ask Mr. James about this:
http://i.imgur.com/533Y5z8.jpg
He unboxed a M4 that never opened and a M mount Elmar 50mm lens inside. It is not usual Elmar.

Body is 384354/M497,the one that on book "30 JAHRE LEICA HISTORICA", page 259. Its perfect set due rarely, and Kriegsmarine made order to Leitz for 13.5cm lens



Note: Owner probably is a chinese collector that Mr. James knows, we better not to ask too much privacy details.

 

[johannielscom]

Real cool, never saw a confirmed authentic Kriegsmarine Leica online before!

Anyone know anything about the thumb lever on it? I'm real interested in that!

 

[johannielscom]

Can't be a rewind lever or it would be on the rewind knob.

I'm not expecting it to be a thumb rest (that is you phrase, Bob) but rather a rapid advance lever. If you put your index finger in it and spin it the same direction the arrow points, you can advance film much faster. And, no need to take off gloves.

A bit like the German solution to the same situation the Russians built the 'Berdsk' model of wartime FED's for.

 

[tennis-joe]

I have a 90mm Leica lens that is almost all brass. The older setting are almost not visible and I have to guess what the more modern equivalents are. It takes good pictures but I don't use it much as I have 90f4 and 90f2.8 M mount lenses for my M cameras. I should use it more but I need to whiten the setting to see what to set them more. What should I use, white crayons to mark the indentations?
J

 

[johannielscom]

Tennis,

is that a translated part of the original post in Chinese?

If so, somebody should warn that fellow to lay off the engravings on his lens, or the value will be seriously impaired!😱

And if it's just your question, use anything you like on a 'regular' lens, but keep away from the engravings if it is a Kriegsmarine-marked (or something similar) lens! I'd suggest using black crayon, since it will stand out more on a brass lens.


Anyway, back on topic! If we were off it, that is...😉

 

[tennis-joe]

Well it is not all brassy looking and mine does not have the Nazi marks. I suspect it is from maybe late 30's or late 40's after the war. The f stops are very hard to read and unless i use it on my Bessa R with the internal meter it is hard to set the f stop if I can't read them. Also the numbers are different than regular f stops today.
J

 

[sabears]

Hi, Bob:
This is roughly translation from owner's reply:


(Owner said) he has saw all thee book that published by James Lager, and there have some details and pictures need to correct.

Here is photo of owner and James Lager, Mr. James would know is at right.
http://i.imgur.com/9C5ODz2.jpg

Also owner wants to ask Mr. James about this:
http://i.imgur.com/533Y5z8.jpg
He unboxed a M4 that never opened and a M mount Elmar 50mm lens inside. It is not usual Elmar.

Body is 384354/M497,the one that on book "30 JAHRE LEICA HISTORICA", page 259. Its perfect set due rarely, and Kriegsmarine made order to Leitz for 13.5cm lens



Note: Owner probably is a chinese collector that Mr. James knows, we better not to ask too much privacy details.

Leicas with those authentic kriegsmarine markings do exist, are known and cataloged, but little till now has been published.
Ask to Jim Lager - There is in Italy a friend of Jim, researching about military leicas, specialist in those of kriegsmarine (different person from Luigi Cane).
No one has done more extensive research on the subject, thousands of hours and email with veterans, research in archives and visits to university professors.
His research results are partly published sometimes in the italian Classic Camera magazine: he is actually working with Jim for an updated edition of Jim Lager book regarding "Wehrmacht Leica" .

Best regards.

 

[rfaspen]

OK, Maybe I'm slow.

The camera is sitting on a book page that happens to have an image of the same camera on it. Or it sure looks to be the same camera. This would indicate to me that this outfit has been known, and photographed to be included in a book about Leicas of some kind (wartime Leicas?) Like I said, maybe everyone else noticed that already...

The rapid advance hook is veeerrrryyy intriguing. I want one.

 

[CameraQuest]

During the 1960's there are a number of similar advance attachments available for Barnack Leicas in the American photo magazines.

Stephen

 

[LeicaTom]

That film advance on the camera is from the 1950's I believe they were made in Japan.....

It looks real to me, part of a German Naval Aircrew's kit (Seaplane service) ? - a few Leica's were issued to German naval aviation units.....

Speaking of Kriegsmarine, I once owned this amazing 100% confirmed original Leica IIIC Kriegsmarine/Navy set -

Camera was part of a retired Royal Navy Officer's estate, he acquired it from a captured U-Boot crewmember (a very rare survivor) as something like 90% of all attacked German submarines the crews died with their ship, few were fished out of the drink, or made it out alive of a surfaced ship.

That camera went back to Europe, where it's residing with (2) more cameras made the same day with serial numbers within this series.

It was one of the rarest of all Leica kits manufactured for any German military service during WW2, (less than 20 cameras issued) with the KM (M = Marine/Reichsadler) Leitz Xenon f1.5/50mm - I suppose they all went to top shooters in the submarine service, at least 4 are known to still exist.

Who knows what still lurks out there in old trunks, or desk drawers or in a deceased relatives attic? - Keep looking if anyone finds any Leica's from WW2 they need help identifying, please email me - koolgirliestuff@gmail.com

Enjoy!

Tom

 

[sabears]

Another strange bird 😉:
Ebay n.200954675220

The seller's assumptions are not true.
He says:
...This Leica IIIc, Sr# 378380 (typo, should be 378386...but it does not matter) was listed with the designations M493 to M537. Delivery to Berlin occurred March 1942...

Actually, from Leitz books, cameras in that batch were in the 384351-384400 range and were always marked even with the Mxxx code.

cheers.

 

[LeicaTom]

Another strange bird 😉:
Ebay n.200954675220

The seller's assumptions are not true.
He says:
...This Leica IIIc, Sr# 378380 (typo, should be 378386...but it does not matter) was listed with the designations M493 to M537. Delivery to Berlin occurred March 1942...

Actually, from Leitz books, cameras in that batch were in the 384351-384400 range and were always marked even with the Mxxx code.

cheers.

That camera is 100% FAKE - Faked Reichs Eagle, was delivered to Romania and has no military connections whatsoever.....*sigh*

Tom

 

[sabears]

That camera is 100% FAKE - Faked Reichs Eagle, was delivered to Romania and has no military connections whatsoever.....*sigh*

Tom

...100% agree...and even the font used is terrifying😱.

cheers.

 

[LeicaTom]

$2225 for a 100% faked camera, verified to have been delivered to Romania, some collectors with money are just plain stupid! 😛

Tom