frank-grumman
Well-known
Outstanding news!!! I a well live in a space w/ no room for a "lab." So, I'm gonna give this a try. Since Philly lost Philadelphia Photographics who decided to close shop, I've had to depend upon a small shop for developing, and so I'm at the behest of their schedule and associated logistics. This unit looks as though it will fill the bill. 
Thanks for posting, Godfrey and for you all providing your feedback.
Thanks for posting, Godfrey and for you all providing your feedback. 
Solinar
Analog Preferred
With regards to a little HC-110 going a long way, about 6 years ago, I divided up a bottle of the developer into 4 brown glass bottles. I'm now part way through through the second glass bottle. Dilution h requires about 4.5 mL per 300mL of working solution.
Have fun folks. It'll be nice to read how the new apparatus performs with 120 film.
Muggins
Junk magnet
Interesting - I wonder how this differs from my 1920s Kodak daylight loading box?
Adrian
Adrian
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
What they mean is 120 and 35mm, provided you get both those clip on modules. It’s “the first” because with the Rondinax you either had the one which did 120, or the one which did 135, so you needed two separate Rondinaxes.
With the Lab Box, you have one machine, with two interchangeable film holding modules, provided you bought both of them. It’s a minor distinction which nonetheless provides some advertising copy.
They have done a really nice job on the manufacturing quality though. There are established companies who don’t do as well.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
If it's any consolation, I have had one or two 'accidents' like that with the Rondinax tanks. It is always a big disappointment when it does happen.
I've got a few 'junk' rolls that I constructed to learn loading and get the feel of the device. That's the one downside of all these kinds of tanks: You're operating blind during loading so you really have to develop a sensitive touch to feel when the film is mis-threading.
I've loaded up my junk 135 roll twice now and inspected the results. No problems. The feel*at the knob is very light so I can tell I have to concentrate to detect whether a problem is happening. I don't have a good way of simulating this for 120 format film.
This is why I acquired a couple of Rondinax and Rondix tanks, for processing more than one film at the same time. But using a hair dryer set on low, or even just a small fan after blotting the reels as dry as you can, will dry them out completely in just a couple of minutes. Given the volume of film I process nowadays, it's not proven to be a problem, but if you're doing multiple rolls per session then multiple tanks or other processing equipment that can handle more volume prove more efficient.
120 and 135 film sizes, at least for now. The previous such daylight loading tanks from Agfa, Essex, et al only handled one film type—you needed entirely different tanks to handle 135 and 120 film (for Agfa, it was Rondix 35 and Rondinax 35U for 135, and Rondinax 60 for 120).
I have been using HC-110 diluted 1:49 with water, so 4ml concentrate plus 196ml water for 200 ml developer which works fine for all my Agfa tanks. It's a slightly dilute developer, I can use one mix for two or three rolls of 135 or 120, but I usually use it one-shot (I only very rarely have more than one roll to process at a time these days).
I'll probably do 120 first ... the Perkeo II is loaded and ready.
Can't wait to see how it performs on a 'wet' run.
G
Steve M.
Veteran
Thanks for the real life experience Larry. Very helpful. I'm interested in these contraptions!
I suspect that the problem you had w/ the reel is something that will go away once you understand the unit and get used to it. Can't tell you how many reels of film I ruined loading Paterson reels in the beginning. I still don't like it that w/o light one can never really know if a reel is loaded correctly or not, but after considerable use, it gets easier to feel the film on the reel w/ your fingers. You pretty well know if it's loaded correctly.
You can't do that w/ the Lab-Box, but again, I suspect it's just a matter of becoming more familiar w/ it before that issue resolves itself.
I suspect that the problem you had w/ the reel is something that will go away once you understand the unit and get used to it. Can't tell you how many reels of film I ruined loading Paterson reels in the beginning. I still don't like it that w/o light one can never really know if a reel is loaded correctly or not, but after considerable use, it gets easier to feel the film on the reel w/ your fingers. You pretty well know if it's loaded correctly.
You can't do that w/ the Lab-Box, but again, I suspect it's just a matter of becoming more familiar w/ it before that issue resolves itself.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Larry and Godfrey,
Thanks, I guessed it would be 120 and 35mm but thought it best to ask.
Regards, David
Thanks, I guessed it would be 120 and 35mm but thought it best to ask.
Regards, David
Gerry M
Gerry
How do you wash the film between chemicals?
Solinar
Analog Preferred
A youtube video, courtesy of Malcom Peaker - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdc6T6ydARQ
Just pour out the developer, add whatever milliliters of water that is require by the developing tank - twirl a bit - pour out again - then add a second whatever milliliters of water for good measure, twirl for about 30 seconds, pour out the second water bath and add the proper measurement of fixer.
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
That’s probably the case. I have a fair amount of experience with the Rondinax and Patterson reels, but might have been pushing my luck a bit with the lack of perfect “flatness” on the leading edge of the film. This roll had been in the camera a long time, and the end had assumed a curled back shape that was resistant to flattening. I cut back a fair amount to get into some flatter film, but it still wasn’t perfectly flat. I knew at the time it might present a problem, but didn’t want to destroy the first frame by pulling any more of the film out in order to get back into some flatter film. I knew from my usage history with the Rondinax that this might cause a jam, but I think I was just trying to find out if this unit, with this new reel was any better in that regard. Apparently not
(And you cannot tell from the feel of the knob rotation that anything is amiss)
For someone contemplating buying one of these, I was trying to make a couple of points as points of reference. The lack of “flatness” I am describing was not severe. It would have easily threaded into a Patterson reel with no jamming problems. The Rondinax reels tend to be less forgiving of uneven bends in the leading edge of the film, and so, apparently, do the Lab Box reels. Lesson learned. I have dry run a test roll of film, having a clean leading edge with no kinks or bends in it, several times, and the reel loaded smoothly with no issues every time.
This attribute isn’t really a design flaw, you just need to watch your technique, as with most things.
Will see how things go from here on out, but my initial experience should not dissuade anyone from trying one of these, as I was pushing the envelope a bit more than I should have. Used carefully, this will probably turn out to be a useful piece of equipment for a lot of people.
Gerry M
Gerry
Thanks Andrew.
valdas
Veteran
So, one roll at a time, ah?
aizan
Veteran
Looks cool, clever engineering...but really expensive to avoid a changing bag and only be able to do one roll per session. ONE ROLL?!
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Tanks like this aren't for everyone. They suit me very well now ... the number of times I've had more than one roll to process at any given time in the past decade I could count on the fingers of one hand.
They're simply very very useful if you don't have a darkroom and don't want to fuss with changing bags or light tents, etc. I can process a roll of film in 25 minutes end to end with one and everything is cleaned up and put away in another 3.
G
They're simply very very useful if you don't have a darkroom and don't want to fuss with changing bags or light tents, etc. I can process a roll of film in 25 minutes end to end with one and everything is cleaned up and put away in another 3.
G
selahsean
Member
Mine is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. It will be my first time developing film. I've got the Monobath from Cinestill on hand. Will share results from developing this weekend.
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
Forum denizens are not indicative of the world at large. Most people take weeks or months to shoot one 36 exposure roll of film.
Processing one roll at a time isn’t a drawback for most people, and the small niche of people who have a legitimate need to process multiple rolls of film at one time, most of those people already have a darkroom if they are that serious about film photography. Some don’t, but most do.
retinax
Well-known
Count me among the agnostics, to me it seems like a solution in search of a problem. It doesn't take less space or time than a normal tank. And a normal tank doesn't require a darkroom to load, a dark room is sufficient. For those who shoot very rarely, the price is high. For beginners, it seems to help create the impression that it's all very difficult if something like this is needed.... and again, the price is a hurdle, so maybe in total it's not all that useful to get more people to develop their own film. But never mind, apparently enough people backed the Kickstarter after all.
For those who shoot very rarely, the price is high. For beginners, it seems to help create the impression that it's all very difficult if something like this is needed.... and again, the price is a hurdle, so maybe in total it's not all that useful to get more people to develop their own film. But never mind, apparently enough people backed the Kickstarter after all.
Pete B
Well-known
Is it possible to load in a changing bag with the Lab Box's lid open so you can monitor its correct loading with a finger tip on the edge of the film, or is it not possible to load with the lid open?
Pete
davidnewtonguitars
Family Snaps
My young son & I both shoot B&W film, I bulk load cassettes and process in a 4 roll tank, every few weeks, 8-10 rolls. I am very frugal, use 1+1 D76, water stop bath, and keep count of how many rolls I have fixed before mixing a new batch.
All that to say I think that I will encourage my son to stay the heck out of my developing equipment, buy the Lab Box and do some films on his own. I think this is a great way to get started.
All that to say I think that I will encourage my son to stay the heck out of my developing equipment, buy the Lab Box and do some films on his own. I think this is a great way to get started.
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
You could do that, but.....
If the leading edge of the film is trimmed correctly, there are not likely to be any problems. That was the main reason I posted my original description of what went wrong, not to scare people off of these, but to highlight best practices.
Using this thing is easier than anything that involves fumbling around in a changing bag....just need to do it right, which I didn’t for that first roll.
People who already have a darkroom, or have changing bags and a full complement of tanks that they are used to using, don’t really need one of these, but, for someone who has nothing, and just wants a way to get started processing their own film, this thing is pretty slick, and would likely be all they would ever need. They’d be unlikely to ever think a changing bag was going to be the next step up.
(FWIW, I have a darkroom, I just bought this because I like to see how effectively different engineering challenges are met, and I grew up enjoying Rube Goldberg diagrams.)