This is the latest info I have about the upcoming M8.
With the M8 moving forward, all new lenses starting in Germany next month will have an electronic contact which tells the camera which frame lines to use. Existing lenses can have the contacts added for 125.00 per lens. New non gray market lenses purchased since January of this year will be upgraded for free in NJ. NJ has more electronic contacts on order than the entire world due to expected demand for the product.
Thas all I know for now from my birds in the N.E
With the M8 moving forward, all new lenses starting in Germany next month will have an electronic contact which tells the camera which frame lines to use. Existing lenses can have the contacts added for 125.00 per lens. New non gray market lenses purchased since January of this year will be upgraded for free in NJ. NJ has more electronic contacts on order than the entire world due to expected demand for the product.
Thas all I know for now from my birds in the N.E
C
ch1
Guest
Jorge Torralba said:This is the latest info I have about the upcoming M8.
With the M8 moving forward, all new lenses starting in Germany next month will have an electronic contact which tells the camera which frame lines to use. Existing lenses can have the contacts added for 125.00 per lens. New non gray market lenses purchased since January of this year will be upgraded for free in NJ. NJ has more electronic contacts on order than the entire world due to expected demand for the product.
Thas all I know for now from my birds in the N.E
Sounds like SOOL for ZM and other non-Leitz M-mount lenses for the M8?
Flinor
Well-known
Also for those of us who have a lot of LTM lenses that we like to use with adaptors.
Steve B
Established
I sure hope they have a manual function so that even if the framelines don't automatically appear one can at least set them manually. I think it would be a shame not to be able to use all the wonderful and less expensive lenses out there. Especially since I don't have any Leitz glass and $5K is a bit above my level of affordability these days already without having to buy new lenses as well. I'll keep dreaming though.copake_ham said:
C
ch1
Guest
Sounds like Leica now playing tech-catch-up.
In the Japanese SLR/DSLR world (e.g. Nikon - which I am most familiar with) the latter day AF film-based lenses for SLRs have the electronic pickups tnat enable compatibility with dSLRs (although some w/o full data capture).
This is one of the strengths of the D200 which has "enhanced" backward compatibility.
Leica now faces the dilemma of melding the possibilities of electronic pick-up for data and AF purposes with a heretofore moribund lens mount technology.
I will be curious to see how they retrofit pre-digi Leitz M-mount lenses to enable all of the possible M8 capabilities.
Perhaps the M8 is more of a "split" than a "smooth transition" from the film-based models?
In the Japanese SLR/DSLR world (e.g. Nikon - which I am most familiar with) the latter day AF film-based lenses for SLRs have the electronic pickups tnat enable compatibility with dSLRs (although some w/o full data capture).
This is one of the strengths of the D200 which has "enhanced" backward compatibility.
Leica now faces the dilemma of melding the possibilities of electronic pick-up for data and AF purposes with a heretofore moribund lens mount technology.
I will be curious to see how they retrofit pre-digi Leitz M-mount lenses to enable all of the possible M8 capabilities.
Perhaps the M8 is more of a "split" than a "smooth transition" from the film-based models?
sdai
Established
So we can declare the obsolescence of all M7s, MPs, MP 3s, and maybe several soon to be "last generation" ASPH lenses? ... that's fantastic!
Fred
Feline Great
I think there is more to this than meets the eye. I have to ask the question why do this when they have a proven mechanical method of frameline presentation?
Simple, it must be altering something else, like the outer sensitivity of the sensor perhaps to reduce vignetting from non linear light reception. This would save doing it in software. Would also mean exact FL of the lens is transferred for the wider lenses that need external VFs.
I'd be interested to see if anyone picks up the business for contact addition for screw adapters or even if its possible.
Simple, it must be altering something else, like the outer sensitivity of the sensor perhaps to reduce vignetting from non linear light reception. This would save doing it in software. Would also mean exact FL of the lens is transferred for the wider lenses that need external VFs.
I'd be interested to see if anyone picks up the business for contact addition for screw adapters or even if its possible.
S
Stephan
Guest
Fred said:
I wouldnt be surprised if this is just preparing the field for the digital M, if the lenses have electronic contacts information about focal length and aperture can be displayed in the digitl file header.
Fred
Feline Great
Stephan said:
An intersting point, this would make sense for new lenses (and prices I guess) but as a modification to existing lenses I would have thought that this would cost more than the quoted price of 125. Maybe it depends on where they do the mods. In Europe it would be expensive fo sure.
I'll keep half an eye out for any more scaps of information. The RD-1 is looking a tad more interesting at the moment.
VinceC
Veteran
If Leitz is charging $125 retail, then it's probably not a major modification, the electronic equivalent of DX coding on a roll of film. I recall reading articles a few years ago on how you could use metalic tape to create your own DX codiing on a non-DX roll of film, or change the DX pattern to push or pull film. In the 1970s, Nikon switched from the F to the AI mount, requiring older lenses to be refitted with a new aperture ring. They didn't charge much, but those of us with $25 lenses from pawnshops discovered that you could also just file the aperture ring at the correct location. Not elegant, but quite functional.
R
RML
Guest
Vince, I think you're hitting the nail on the head here. Now, where're my files...?
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
Warning: Speculation Ahead!
My guess about why they're going to the electronic contact is simply to reduce manufacturing costs. With electronic signaling of focal length, they can eliminate several delicate mechanical parts out of the RF module and select the frames via a stepper motor, or maybe even an LCD that would mask out the unused frames by turning opaque. (Now that would be a jolt for Leica purists!)
The electrical contact also would eliminate the need to precision-machine the lug on the lens that engages the correct frame line -- although this would mean that new lenses wouldn't be backward-compatible with older bodies, so they're probably not ready to jump that far.
Then again, they may be keeping the old mechanical system and adding the contact simply so the EXIF data for each frame can correctly indicate the focal length being used. As every Leica user knows, the mechanical system brings up most framelines in pairs, so it wouldn't be able to signal the EXIF which of the pair was used.
My guess about why they're going to the electronic contact is simply to reduce manufacturing costs. With electronic signaling of focal length, they can eliminate several delicate mechanical parts out of the RF module and select the frames via a stepper motor, or maybe even an LCD that would mask out the unused frames by turning opaque. (Now that would be a jolt for Leica purists!)
The electrical contact also would eliminate the need to precision-machine the lug on the lens that engages the correct frame line -- although this would mean that new lenses wouldn't be backward-compatible with older bodies, so they're probably not ready to jump that far.
Then again, they may be keeping the old mechanical system and adding the contact simply so the EXIF data for each frame can correctly indicate the focal length being used. As every Leica user knows, the mechanical system brings up most framelines in pairs, so it wouldn't be able to signal the EXIF which of the pair was used.
rbraun
Newbie
I wonder how you code the Tri Elmar
Harry Lime
Practitioner
I think Stephan is on the right path. I would not be surprised if future M lenses are chipped to pass along aperture, focal length and focus distance to the camera. For one thing you would want that information in the header of the image file, but it will also tell the camera what framelines to display and how.
I doubt that a current lens with the upgrade could pass along anything more than its focal length, since there is no mechanical linkage to the aperture.
It also makes me wonder if the new digital M is generating a variable frameline mask, perhaps electronically.
Very interesting indeed.
I doubt that a current lens with the upgrade could pass along anything more than its focal length, since there is no mechanical linkage to the aperture.
It also makes me wonder if the new digital M is generating a variable frameline mask, perhaps electronically.
Very interesting indeed.
Passsing information about the lens will definetly be something needed down the line.
John Camp
Well-known
I've been waiting breathlessly for the new M8 and in preparing for it, I've spent, mmmm ~ $14,000-$16,000 on lenses in the last 6-8 months, which I'm now happily using on an R-D1. If there is not a mechanical link to bring up framelines on the new M8, I'm going to be massively p.o.ed. But even as I write this, it occurs to me that it wouldn't make sense not to have at least that much backward compatibility -- it would mean that everybody with a full M system would be looking at a bunch of useless glass without paying $125 each to have them fixed...or in my case, almost $900 dollars. So the more faithful a user you were, the more heavily you'd be screwed.
Therefore: there IS a mechanical link, and the chip probably is just a way to provide exif information that you can't get without it. Exif is nice; on my Nikon I enjoyed having it both times I looked at it.
JC
Therefore: there IS a mechanical link, and the chip probably is just a way to provide exif information that you can't get without it. Exif is nice; on my Nikon I enjoyed having it both times I looked at it.
JC
kbg32
neo-romanticist
I wouldn't worry.
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
John Camp said:
And that would be different how...?
sf
Veteran
maybe all the gearheads will start dumping their M7s and MPs and I can pick one up for a decent price.
willie_901
Veteran
Ocam'z Razor Hypothesis
1/ New Leitz lenses – i.e. those sold with the M8 initial release will be chipped. They will pass only the basic lens info (no focus/f data) using some sort of passive ROM or ROM-like device. This is a requirement of digital photogra;y market. Digital photographers expect and benefit from text data stored with the image.
2/ Old Leitz lenses can be chipped for use on the digital M. Un-chipped lenses will work as they do on the M-6 and M-7. The mechanical features of the M mount will be retained.
3/ In the future Leica will likely market lenses with more data transfer features. This generation of lenses will pass focus and aperture data. The mechanical features of the M mount will be retained.
willie
1/ New Leitz lenses – i.e. those sold with the M8 initial release will be chipped. They will pass only the basic lens info (no focus/f data) using some sort of passive ROM or ROM-like device. This is a requirement of digital photogra;y market. Digital photographers expect and benefit from text data stored with the image.
2/ Old Leitz lenses can be chipped for use on the digital M. Un-chipped lenses will work as they do on the M-6 and M-7. The mechanical features of the M mount will be retained.
3/ In the future Leica will likely market lenses with more data transfer features. This generation of lenses will pass focus and aperture data. The mechanical features of the M mount will be retained.
willie