Leica LTM Leica 50mm Collapsible Lenses: Elmar 3.5 vs. Elmar 2.8 vs. Summitar 2.0

[jrose125]

A big thanks to everyone who took the time to comment on this thread - very informative and helpful.

I ended up getting a few really great deals, namely on a 1939 III with an uncoated Elmar and a 1946 IIIc with a Summar, so I guess that's what lenses I will be dealing with from the get-go.

I will not be keeping both bodies and will likely sell one of the lenses as well, but I'm really excited to get started with my Screw Mount adventure!

Thanks again

 

[Mr_Flibble]

The Summar is a nice warm to neutral lens. It suffers from a bit more vignetting than its younger brother, the Summitar. Still a good performer, particularly for portraits.
Something to do with how it renders (or not renders) shadow detail that can give images a 3D-look.

 

[Erik van Straten]

My Summitar (508151) suffers from a severe barrel vault distortion, but my Summars do not!

Erik.

Summar 50mm uncoated.

 

[jrose125]

Gorgeous shot! Do you find you "have" to use a hood with the Summar to get decent results? I've heard that veiling flare is a big issue with uncoated glass

 

[presspass]

Flare is an issue with the Summar, but there is a very large hood made just for that lens and it does not cost a lot. It will also take the adjustable hood - the one made for 50, 90, and 135 - and it's a lot smaller and not expensive. The Summer is probably the smallest 2.0 50 Leica made. Collapsed it's not much larger, if at all, than the Elmar.

 

[Erik van Straten]

On the Summar I use the FLQOO, a beautiful black paint shade from the thirties. Works perfect on the prewar Leica lenses Elmar 50mm, Hektor 50mm, Summar 50mm and - big surprise - also on the Elmar 35mm.

There are coated Summars around, postwar coated of course.

Erik.

 

[Steve_Pfost]

[/url]20191129 (32) by Steven Pfost, on Flickr[/IMG]

Uncoated Summitar made 1942. Shot at around f/2.2 or so. Has some haze inside, I gently cleaned some of the easily reachable haze myself. I use the sweet ass barn door hood. Yeah, it can sometimes be a pain to frame but I find it fun to use and it looks wild, especially attached to a barnack.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Yes, the coating of uncoated lenses was another upgrade that Leica offered after the war.

 

[jrose125]

Thanks again for anyone who commented and help give direction to my search! I recently shot my first roll through my new-to-me Leica IIIc and accompanying 50mm Summar f/2:

Film is Kentmere 400 which was developed in Rodinal (1:25) @ 21 degrees C for 7 mins 30 seconds.

Again, this is my first roll through the camera but I am really digging it so far. I wasn't really sure what to expect with the Summar in particular but I really enjoy what I got from this roll!

 

[Erik van Straten]

Leica III black/nickel (late), Summar nickel, 400-2TMY, printed on AdoxMCC110.

Erik.

 

[p.giannakis]

Nice one Erik!

 

[Erik van Straten]

Thank you, Pan.


Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Leica III, Color Skopar 50mm f/2.5, 400-2TMY.

Not collapsible but the best of all.

Erik.

 

[awilder]

The 1937 Elmar 50/3.5 that came with my Barnack had only modest internal haze resulting in very low contrast by today's standards although resolution was acceptably good when stopped down a little to f/6.3. A well respected Leica repairman told me the lens wouldn't be worth the cost of service due to etching from the haze. I replaced it with the CV 50/3.5 Heliar which is well regarded as the best 50/3.5 optic available period and images from the lens bear this out. CV doesn't publish MTF data but I suspect it's as good or better than the 50/2.5 Skopar at the same f settings.

 

[Erik van Straten]

I replaced it with the CV 50/3.5 Heliar which is well regarded as the best 50/3.5 optic available period and images from the lens bear this out. CV doesn't publish MTF data but I suspect it's as good or better than the 50/2.5 Skopar at the same f settings.

It is optically very good indeed, but the f/2.5 Color Skopar is faster and its ergonomics are superb; much better than those of the Heliar. Try one and you are convinced.

btw, I've cleaned a lot of Elmars, but I've never seen "etching from the haze". Recently I've cleaned one from 1928: no "etching" at all. Elmars cannot be cleaned from scratching, however.

Erik.

 

[awilder]

No doubt about the Color Skopars speed advantage. The Heliar's ergonomics are better than the pre-war Elmars but behind any more modern lens like the Skopar. However, the collapsible feature of the Heliar allows it to easily fit the leather Leica camera case that came with the camera. The Skopar might be a tighter fit especially with filter and front cap attached unless you have a case with a larger front nose or just a body case without a front cover.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Don't forget too that the Skopar has seven elements against the Heliar five, nevertheless the lens is much more compact. The seven elements give a kind of "fullness" to the image, comparable to that of the Summicron 50mm rigid. By the way, it is very hard to see in the pictures any difference between the Summicron rigid and the Color Skopar, believe it or not.


Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Leica IIIc, Summicron 50mm collapsible.

Erik.

 

[David Hughes]

The 1937 Elmar 50/3.5 that came with my Barnack had only modest internal haze resulting in very low contrast by today's standards although resolution was acceptably good when stopped down a little to f/6.3. A well respected Leica repairman told me the lens wouldn't be worth the cost of service due to etching from the haze...

This baffled me too. I would have thought that the uncoated 1937 lens would be very easy to clean.


Regards, David

 

[TenEleven]

This baffled me too. I would have thought that the uncoated 1937 lens would be very easy to clean.


Regards, David

Second.. no third-ing the sentiment of bafflement.

All the uncoated lenses I've taken apart and cleaned (some Leica mount, some Contax, some Rolleiflexes) were all very easy to clean. You can also use harder chemicals like hydrogen peroxide and ammonia to get off some of the more stubborn organic haze. This has always worked perfectly for me so far.

I've restored a basket-case 1936 Sonnar lens to basically look like new, excluding the scratches which do not affect anything.

Coated lenses seem to be much softer (regardless of maker) and etch more easily.