eleskin
Well-known
I dropped off my M8 for service in Allendale NJ last week, and I knew I would see a smaller office than companies like Olympus, etc,,, What struck me is when you are actually there, even when you know the facts. I was not disapointed, I just felt more of a personal connection to the company, kind of like when you go to a mom and pop store. I guess when you realize Leica only has 1,100 people working for them, this fact becomes more so. Imagine Nikon with 25,000 people and Leica with 1,100 people, and yet Leica can hold its own in ground breaking lens design. In the digital field, being with a larger company like Panasonic makes sense, as well as Kodak.
I can also see why Canon and Nikon are not making cameras that will compete with the M8. I personally believe Canon and Nikon have alot of respect for Leica, and do not want to hurt their business (I was at a VW dealer, and they were sad about GM and did not want them to go under), and they would be saddened if they were to cause Leica to go under.
Knowing all of this , I can see why some Leica products are priced as they are (I would like to see some reduction, but that will only come if they sell more product and hire more people). Their lenses are a once and done investment, and hold their value. Every lens I bought was used, and unlike a used car, I had little doubt as to what I was going to get for the money. The M8 cannot hold value like the lenses due to the digital "Craze", but it seems the megapix wars are slowing down, and image quality are becoming more of a factor. Ah, the lenses are more important in the end!
This is where Leica shines. My M8 has not been perfect, but I got what I wanted. Before the M8, I was using medium format (Fuji gsw 690, etc), but I always loved my Leicas (M6, M4-2) because of the size and the superior viewfinder. The M8 gave me a medium format Leica M. The files from the camera rival what I could get with film from my Fuji GSW 690.
Well, I got a little off track here, sorry.
Leica is a small camera maker that makes products that are unique in this fast paced world. Their service has been first class. They have made some mistakes (haven't we all), but in the end, they deserve my loyalty, and in return, their tools have given me the ability to create photographs the way I can visualize them.
I can also see why Canon and Nikon are not making cameras that will compete with the M8. I personally believe Canon and Nikon have alot of respect for Leica, and do not want to hurt their business (I was at a VW dealer, and they were sad about GM and did not want them to go under), and they would be saddened if they were to cause Leica to go under.
Knowing all of this , I can see why some Leica products are priced as they are (I would like to see some reduction, but that will only come if they sell more product and hire more people). Their lenses are a once and done investment, and hold their value. Every lens I bought was used, and unlike a used car, I had little doubt as to what I was going to get for the money. The M8 cannot hold value like the lenses due to the digital "Craze", but it seems the megapix wars are slowing down, and image quality are becoming more of a factor. Ah, the lenses are more important in the end!
This is where Leica shines. My M8 has not been perfect, but I got what I wanted. Before the M8, I was using medium format (Fuji gsw 690, etc), but I always loved my Leicas (M6, M4-2) because of the size and the superior viewfinder. The M8 gave me a medium format Leica M. The files from the camera rival what I could get with film from my Fuji GSW 690.
Well, I got a little off track here, sorry.
Leica is a small camera maker that makes products that are unique in this fast paced world. Their service has been first class. They have made some mistakes (haven't we all), but in the end, they deserve my loyalty, and in return, their tools have given me the ability to create photographs the way I can visualize them.
Tuolumne
Veteran
In business, the only company you can have sympathy for is the one you don't compete with. In that sense, I'm sure Canon and Nikon have alot of sympathy for Leica.
/T
/T
emraphoto
Veteran
leica unfortunately does not have a very good reputation for it's service. i am glad that your experience was positive... really.
i wish i could say the same things. i am, and was willing to pay the price leica asks. i was willing to buy new to help keep them going. i just could not, no matter how hard i tried, accept the treatment i received from leicausa. small company or not.
i wish i could say the same things. i am, and was willing to pay the price leica asks. i was willing to buy new to help keep them going. i just could not, no matter how hard i tried, accept the treatment i received from leicausa. small company or not.
LeicaMSeattle
Established
Most recently my experience with LeicaUSA has been superb. I purchased an M8 which I experienced some interesting anomolies that once brought to their attention, garnered excellent response and subsequent service. I think if you make the effort to develop a good dialogue with one or more of the staff members there, the better respect you will recieve from them. You can find some of my earlier threads here and they'll explain what and how they resolved my camera's problems. I think they are trying a lot harder to serve their clients better.
emraphoto
Veteran
i do hope more effort is being made to serve their clients. those m8"s cost a lot of dough!
i sincerely wish my experience had been different. a lot different. and i am also sincerely glad that the winds of change are blowing through. in my opinion service (when folks are plonking down that kind of change) is just as important as technological leaps forward.
i sincerely wish my experience had been different. a lot different. and i am also sincerely glad that the winds of change are blowing through. in my opinion service (when folks are plonking down that kind of change) is just as important as technological leaps forward.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Ronald M
Veteran
Leica sets the standard for imaging. They all have to respect that. I have compared Nikon and Leica, film and digital, Leica lens on Nikon digital, scanned film and Nikon digital, and Leica comes out ahead every time.
Now if they had a FF digi RF or an R10, the Nikon stuff would go. S2 is not the answer for me.
Now if they had a FF digi RF or an R10, the Nikon stuff would go. S2 is not the answer for me.
Ben Z
Veteran
I'm sure Nikon and Canon do respect Leica, if for no other reason than Leica's historic innovation(s) which evolved the entire mainstream 35mm photography phenomenon, which in turn made Nikon and Canon what they are today. But I think it's a little ambitious to say that's the reason Canon and Nikon don't make cameras that compete with Leica. More likely is that Nikon (since the mid-1960's) and Canon (since the 80's) technology and innovation has become the benchmark, and there is no profit motive (in the dollar figures that appeal to these large companies) in trying to tap into Leica's niche market. Nikon's dabble with the S-series retro-repros a few years back clearly showed them that.
That said, I have been to the factory in Solms and was duly impressed. It may be small but it isn't the Keebler Elves working in a hollowed-out tree trunk. They have state-of-the-art equipment and a very well laid-out operation. I have never been to Allendale, but I did just have my M8 upgraded and I must say the experience was a pleasant one. Got my e-mail to send it, got an e-mail from Karen that it had been received, and then the camera was back in my hands about 2 weeks later in a sealed plastic bag, all upgrades done correctly, new firmware installed, rangefinder still perfectly aligned, plus a certificate for the extended warranty and a $150 voucher toward a future purchase. No complaints here.
Richard Marks
Rexel
For me it really is all about the glass. Leica optics are in a class of their own. Its addictive and I am hooked for life. It is perhaps unfortunate that what is connected to their lenses (both M8 build quality and subsequent service for repairs) although passable falls short of their lenses optical perfection. It allows them to get away with quite a lot which would not be tollerated from either Nikon or Canon.
I am still sore at being mislead around the launch of the M8 regarding IR cutout filters and it was a few months sorting things out. Leica UK are very dismissive and have to defer everything to Germany.
I am sure that Nikon and Canon have respect for Leica, but this is certainly not a reason for leaving them alone like some endangered species. Leica simply does not compete with them for sales, and it really is not worth their while. If rangefinders suddenly became 25% of professional camera sales you can be sure Nikon and Canon would be in their pretty quickly.
It is going to be intersting to see if the S2 can compete in the professional market. Professionals certainly will not tollerate the sort of service that we have to put up with as unlike the digital rangefinder market, there are alternatives in the medium format arena. Hasselblad's UK service support is in my experience quite a lot better than Leica's and can actually carry out repairs in the UK. If you are a pro investing at that price point I expect this to influence choice quite a lot.
best wishes
Richard
I am still sore at being mislead around the launch of the M8 regarding IR cutout filters and it was a few months sorting things out. Leica UK are very dismissive and have to defer everything to Germany.
I am sure that Nikon and Canon have respect for Leica, but this is certainly not a reason for leaving them alone like some endangered species. Leica simply does not compete with them for sales, and it really is not worth their while. If rangefinders suddenly became 25% of professional camera sales you can be sure Nikon and Canon would be in their pretty quickly.
It is going to be intersting to see if the S2 can compete in the professional market. Professionals certainly will not tollerate the sort of service that we have to put up with as unlike the digital rangefinder market, there are alternatives in the medium format arena. Hasselblad's UK service support is in my experience quite a lot better than Leica's and can actually carry out repairs in the UK. If you are a pro investing at that price point I expect this to influence choice quite a lot.
best wishes
Richard
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Mackinaw
Think Different
A lot of people love the underdog. Me too for that matter, which is one reason I hope Leica survives for many years to come. Plus it doesn't hurt that they make some excellent products. I'm primarily a film user and having nothing but praise for the results I get from my MP and Leica lenses.
Jim B.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
This is the point, really.
If there were a huge market for the kind of fantasy camera so many RFF members drool over (full frame, silly cheap, pure fantasy innovations such as auto sensor cleaning in a body half the size of a DSLR), then someone would make it, never mind the R&D expenses.
But it's a tiny market, and we are very lucky that Leica supplies it.
Tashi delek,
R.
xxx
If there were a huge market for the kind of fantasy camera so many RFF members drool over (full frame, silly cheap, pure fantasy innovations such as auto sensor cleaning in a body half the size of a DSLR), then someone would make it, never mind the R&D expenses.
But it's a tiny market, and we are very lucky that Leica supplies it.
Tashi delek,
R.
xxx
zeitz
Established
I've often wondered why Leica does not manufacture its R lenses in Nikon and Canon mounts. Here Leica has left the market for superior DSLR lenses to Zeiss. The rush to 24 MP in the DSLRs have left Nikon and Canon (in particular) with lenses that don't live up to the sensor.
peter_n
Veteran
My experience with Leica Solms service has also been excellent. I returned an M7 to get the optical DX reader upgrade and Leica did all sorts of little extras without asking and got the body back to me in 5 weeks. I think the new management has made quite a difference.