schwalbewurger
Newbie
Hi all,
I've posted this question on Leica forum more than a few days ago, but it seems nobody's answering so I thought I'd reach out here instead. I recently acquired a Leica CL with a Minolta 40mm f/2 M-Rokkor (v1/non-CLE version) and have noticed that the rangefinder patch vertical alignment is a bit off. I have tried to find more research about this issue on the internet for the past few weeks but unfortunately, there isn't a lot of info on adjusting the rangefinder for the CL on the web, forums, and even on Youtube (and some of the links at other forums are very old they are gone now). Some of the things I managed to find is how to remove the small, top plastic cap off the top plate without scratching it (which I have successfully removed without scratching), and an image that someone posted on the photrio forum (link here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/leica-minolta-cl-rangefinder-adjustment.171412/) on the screw adjustment. It seems like the person was saying that both the horizontal and vertical alignment are adjusted on that screw, however I've also read conflicting comments on other forums where users mentioned that the vertical alignment is adjusted from the top plate, and the horizontal alignment adjusted from the cam at the top of the lens mount? I have only managed to adjust the vertical alignment by screwing very gently (and not pushing down on it) and focusing it on infinity (at a high-rise building far away) and so the vertical alignment on the rangefinder patch is now fine. However, when I tried to test for the horizontal alignment accuracy using a digital rangefinder (the laser one), a tripod, and an object to focus on, it seems like the distance from the lens marking does not match the distance I measured from the film plane of the CL to the object (using the digital laser rangefinder). I should also add that I haven't touch the horizontal alignment (both if it is at the top of the lens mount/cam, or if it is at the top screw inside the top plate) and have never tested for the horizontal alignment accuracy before this as well. I also tested for the horizontal alignment at infinity and it focuses correctly.
I know the simplest answer is to just get the camera serviced for a CLA, but I'm on a tight budget and time constraint right now and would not really like to have the camera be serviced (since everything else like the light meter and shutter speed is working fine). Any info/help would be greatly appreciated - thank you!
I've posted this question on Leica forum more than a few days ago, but it seems nobody's answering so I thought I'd reach out here instead. I recently acquired a Leica CL with a Minolta 40mm f/2 M-Rokkor (v1/non-CLE version) and have noticed that the rangefinder patch vertical alignment is a bit off. I have tried to find more research about this issue on the internet for the past few weeks but unfortunately, there isn't a lot of info on adjusting the rangefinder for the CL on the web, forums, and even on Youtube (and some of the links at other forums are very old they are gone now). Some of the things I managed to find is how to remove the small, top plastic cap off the top plate without scratching it (which I have successfully removed without scratching), and an image that someone posted on the photrio forum (link here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/leica-minolta-cl-rangefinder-adjustment.171412/) on the screw adjustment. It seems like the person was saying that both the horizontal and vertical alignment are adjusted on that screw, however I've also read conflicting comments on other forums where users mentioned that the vertical alignment is adjusted from the top plate, and the horizontal alignment adjusted from the cam at the top of the lens mount? I have only managed to adjust the vertical alignment by screwing very gently (and not pushing down on it) and focusing it on infinity (at a high-rise building far away) and so the vertical alignment on the rangefinder patch is now fine. However, when I tried to test for the horizontal alignment accuracy using a digital rangefinder (the laser one), a tripod, and an object to focus on, it seems like the distance from the lens marking does not match the distance I measured from the film plane of the CL to the object (using the digital laser rangefinder). I should also add that I haven't touch the horizontal alignment (both if it is at the top of the lens mount/cam, or if it is at the top screw inside the top plate) and have never tested for the horizontal alignment accuracy before this as well. I also tested for the horizontal alignment at infinity and it focuses correctly.
I know the simplest answer is to just get the camera serviced for a CLA, but I'm on a tight budget and time constraint right now and would not really like to have the camera be serviced (since everything else like the light meter and shutter speed is working fine). Any info/help would be greatly appreciated - thank you!
With the lens on the camera- does it reach infinity, go past it, or come up short?
It has been 15 years since I've done this calibration. It was a pain. The mechanism is delicate. As you discovered: vertical alignment must be done first because it throws off horizontal alignment. With the vertical done, should be a simple matter of moving horizontal alignment with the lens on the camera and a target at about 100meters.
The conflicting instructions you found are for the full-sized Nikon M, not the CL. The concentric screw is the mechanism to adjust both.
It has been 15 years since I've done this calibration. It was a pain. The mechanism is delicate. As you discovered: vertical alignment must be done first because it throws off horizontal alignment. With the vertical done, should be a simple matter of moving horizontal alignment with the lens on the camera and a target at about 100meters.
The conflicting instructions you found are for the full-sized Nikon M, not the CL. The concentric screw is the mechanism to adjust both.
It really does not matter what result a digital rangefinder gives you. The lens isn't coupled to it—is it? It's coupled to the rangefinder in the camera. Forget the laser! If the RF tracks the lens well, cross checked at the film plane, you're good. This is what counts. As Brian said, (whilst the extent of the effect can vary from camera to camera, depending on the schematics of the RF) altering vertical alignment will often shift horizontal in the process. And sometimes vice versa. But you should usually get the vertical right, first. You may still have to revisit it depending on the design. But the closer it is the less adjustment cycles will generally be needed to make vertical and horizontal good.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
For the correct procedure for adjusting the rangefinder on the Leica/Minolta CL you should check these out:
Factory Service Manual
Repair Article from the Society of Photo-Technologists
Factory Service Manual
Repair Article from the Society of Photo-Technologists
yossi
Well-known
Chris, Thank you. You always give sound and helpful advice.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Glad I could help. That Learn Camera Repair website has more than 1200 factory service manuals, repair articles and tutorials...all free. I'm actually the person who built the site! I made it for my friend Gene Pate, a retired camera repair tech. There's also a Facebook group we run where people exchange info and advice on camera repairs.
astrosecret
Recovering rollei snob
he’s just using the laser to check distance and then relate it to the distance markings on the lens. They absolutely should match. If you don’t like using a laser, well, use a tape measure. If the marks don’t correspond to reality, scale focusing is useless and slows down the entire rf shooting experience. Maybe the lens should be shimmed, or the horizontal alignment is off.
I advised tracking of the rangefinder should be cross checked against the lens at the film plane. If this is done as suggested, any issues with the lens itself will be detected. It is always appropriate to check a lens before contemplating rangefinder adjustment.
You cannot couple a laser rangefinder to the CL. That was my point. Apply due diligence to (A) the actual focus of the lens itself, and (B) the calibration of the camera rangefinder to the lens focus—and the distance markings on the scale will work out OK. The camera rangefinder must, repeat, must be calibrated to match the *optical* focus of nominal lenses *at the film plane*. Trying to calibrate the rangefinder by matching it to a distance reading on the lens scale (or an independently measured distance) is *not* good methodology. Yes, the distance scale should be accurate—but it is not accurate enough to ignore the actual point of focus viewed through the lens.
schwalbewurger
Newbie
Hi all,
Thanks for the responses. I just wanted to update that I was able to compare the Minolta 40mm with my other two M-mount lenses (a Light Lens Lab 50mm f/2 and a Voigtlander 35mm f2 Ultron II) on the CL body, and doing the same thing with my M9. I tested for distances at around 2m, 1.2m, and 0.8m. What I found was that all three lenses more or less correspond with each other on the CL, as well as on the M9. The distance marking on the lens was still a bit different with the measured distance from the film plane to the object that I measured with a digital rangefinder laser, so it might be that the CL's horizontal alignment is actually fine, and that my digital rangefinder might be off. I wished I used a tape measure as well to compare it, but I did it in the wee hours of early morning so my brain wasn't working as it should
. I've also shot a roll through it and everything seems to work great. Thanks for all the help!
Thanks for the responses. I just wanted to update that I was able to compare the Minolta 40mm with my other two M-mount lenses (a Light Lens Lab 50mm f/2 and a Voigtlander 35mm f2 Ultron II) on the CL body, and doing the same thing with my M9. I tested for distances at around 2m, 1.2m, and 0.8m. What I found was that all three lenses more or less correspond with each other on the CL, as well as on the M9. The distance marking on the lens was still a bit different with the measured distance from the film plane to the object that I measured with a digital rangefinder laser, so it might be that the CL's horizontal alignment is actually fine, and that my digital rangefinder might be off. I wished I used a tape measure as well to compare it, but I did it in the wee hours of early morning so my brain wasn't working as it should
Muggins
Junk magnet
Aha - this could have the fix for my Retinette that Just Won't Stay Fixed! Thank you for building that, Chris, now if someone would just find some data on the Ilford Advocate....