Huss
Veteran
You know you're living in LaLa Leica Land when good service is a 4 week delay, then a $3000 payment to move to a different camera!
(full disclosure - I too live there...)
aizan
Veteran
bear with me as i come to grips with what the hell they were thinking when they designed the top plate.
first, we have to admit that rangefinder-style cameras with built-in evfs like the fuji x-e3 and sony a6500 are a little awkward conceptually because they are affectations. they imitate the form factor of rangefinders even though they don’t have a reverse Galilean viewfinder in the corner. they are better for keeping nose grease off the screen and are less intimidating to your subjects, but still.
although the screwmount bodies are much less streamlined than the m-mount bodies, they did have a functional aesthetic. in the context of imitative designs, the more honest, manly man’s approach is to start with a plain block and plop the extra pieces (evf, flash shoe, dials) on top.
hence, this is the new cl’s way of distinguishing itself from similar cameras. it is a mirrorless camera with a built-in evf in the corner that is resolutely not rangefinder-style. it’s simultaneously more primitive and modern than its competitors that have a flat top plate.
first, we have to admit that rangefinder-style cameras with built-in evfs like the fuji x-e3 and sony a6500 are a little awkward conceptually because they are affectations. they imitate the form factor of rangefinders even though they don’t have a reverse Galilean viewfinder in the corner. they are better for keeping nose grease off the screen and are less intimidating to your subjects, but still.
although the screwmount bodies are much less streamlined than the m-mount bodies, they did have a functional aesthetic. in the context of imitative designs, the more honest, manly man’s approach is to start with a plain block and plop the extra pieces (evf, flash shoe, dials) on top.
hence, this is the new cl’s way of distinguishing itself from similar cameras. it is a mirrorless camera with a built-in evf in the corner that is resolutely not rangefinder-style. it’s simultaneously more primitive and modern than its competitors that have a flat top plate.
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
Now if I can use my 40mm Summicron-C with it....
And I hit the lottery.
And I hit the lottery.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Color issues are not the same as a sensor failure—MANY cameras have had problematic color problems, I wouldnt single out Leica on that score. M9 family (including the MM) are the only sensor failure problems in Leica's digital camera history. (I seem to recall early M9s sometimes had sensor cracking as well as the corrosion problem that showed up some years later.)
What's remarkable is that Leica is offering a sensor replacement at all. If it were Nikon or Canon, they'd offer a discounted upgrade to the next model only, I believe. This makes more sense to me: Why support already obsolete technology with more obsolete technology? Remember that the M9 was already obsoleted by the typ 240 for over a year before the sensor corrosion issues even surfaced. It probably would be better if they'd done that rather than offer replacements, the grousing wouldn't be any less but more of the audience would have been moved to more current technology by now.
I have no real love for the M9 at all, and I don't really care what it costs. It was simply the first full frame M ... not the greatest. Analogously, not every Porsche is a timeless classic: there are some solid pieces of junk even in other high-end product lines. Do we lambaste Porsche every time they introduce a new car because of it? Well, maybe the Porsche aficionado purists do, who who cares about them either?
For some reason, all'y'all seem to want a Leica regardless, and yet you choose to whine and moan about the price, the service, the design, ad nauseam ... continuously. Why? If you really don't care and you consider them archaic, obsolete items of non-interest, why don't you just chuckle when you see a product announcement and then go on to the latest camera du jour that you like?
I like the CL ... If I didn't already have everything I needed or wanted, I'd buy one. I don't need to buy everything I like, I don't want everything I like. If I did, I'd need to rent another house to hold all the stuff I'd have acquired and would still have to work because I couldn't afford it all if I didn't.
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
All my other cameras that have needed manufacturer service took 4 weeks anyway, Huss. I chose to move to a different camera ... it wasn't required. You, like me, have more than enough cameras normally that if a camera is off waiting for parts for a few months, it's not a problem.
Note that the camera worked fine still, though, and I could have had them ship it back to me while waiting for the replacement sensor to come in, while still using it. It would have required some more cleanup processing, that's all. Big Ffing deal.
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
You can certainly use the 40mm Summicron with it as long as the reduced (60mm equivalent) FoV isn't a problem for you. To get the same FoV on a 1.5x crop sensor, you'll need a 25-27mm lens.
Regards hitting the lottery ... putting ten dollars a week into a piggy bank will probably net you the required money faster than spending a couple of dollars a week on the lottery. The odds of winning the lottery are so low it's more likely you'll be able to walk to the Moon than hit a $5000 jackpot.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
Buy all means put $10 a week aside and in 7-8 years you'll be able to buy the CL and 18mm lens. Still, it will be quicker than the lottery.Regards hitting the lottery ... putting ten dollars a week into a piggy bank will probably net you the required money faster than spending a couple of dollars a week on the lottery. The odds of winning the lottery are so low it's more likely you'll be able to walk to the Moon than hit a $5000 jackpot.
Huss
Veteran
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
40 to 150 a week. Any info on how many hours a day, and how many days per week? It would be interesting to know the rate of M10s per hour, and how many people work on the production line.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
S has cracked sensors.
michaelwj
----------------
Anyway, back the CL...
I think it looks pretty neat. I like the dials and the LCD between them. With the 18/2.8 it's a nice small package. I'd get one if I was after a digital mirrorless camera, and had the $ to blow on one. But our AC just broke so it'll need replacing before Xmas for nearly the cost of a CL
I think it looks pretty neat. I like the dials and the LCD between them. With the 18/2.8 it's a nice small package. I'd get one if I was after a digital mirrorless camera, and had the $ to blow on one. But our AC just broke so it'll need replacing before Xmas for nearly the cost of a CL
taemo
eat sleep shoot
I dont know why people are dissing the CL, I actually really like it.
Looks like the Fuji X-E3 but cleaner.
Was so impressed that I was almost tempted on getting one until I saw the price.
If money was not an option and happy with APS-C, I would go for this over Fuji X series
Looks like the Fuji X-E3 but cleaner.
Was so impressed that I was almost tempted on getting one until I saw the price.
If money was not an option and happy with APS-C, I would go for this over Fuji X series
B-9
Devin Bro
Archiver
Veteran
Looks pretty darn fun to me. Pricewise, not so fun, but it may be a good replacement for the Ricoh GXR when it goes the way of all flesh. In a year or two there will be some good secondhand units for sale, which would be the most cost-effective way for me to get one.
As for the EVF hump - the Zeiss Ikon has a viewfinder hump, and no one complains about that. It was necessary to accommodate the larger VF in both cases. And doesn't the Olympus Pen-F have an EVF bump as well?
As for the EVF hump - the Zeiss Ikon has a viewfinder hump, and no one complains about that. It was necessary to accommodate the larger VF in both cases. And doesn't the Olympus Pen-F have an EVF bump as well?
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Olympus= Micro 4/3rds ---> more space in the body.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
ALL Digilux2 sensors failed - the sensors were by Sony, the cameras built by Panasonic. Leica replaced them for free for twelve years...
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I wonder if it's part manufactured / designed by Panasonic? Lens finish & style looks very Panasonic-ish... seeing as, stylistically, the Pana versions are always more ugly I wonder how bad that will look
There will be no Panasonic version, it is purely by Leica. However, Panasonic and Leica cooperate strongly on technical matters. The 15 mm lens does look a lot like the 14 mm by Panasonic, but it cannot be the same, as it is for a different sensor format. However, Panasonic, in turn, cooperated with Leica to design their lens.
Landberg
Well-known
The new Leica CL is the Leica i have been waiting for. BUT, its to late. I think that a lot of people have already gone for Fuji or micro 4/3 and are happy. I would never trade my X-pro2 for the Leica CL. I bought a brand new Leica M digital 2 years ago and that was not worth the money. I may have bought the CL (if it would have been around) instead 2 years ago, MAYBE. but now? No way, it's to late. It has nothing to offer that my fuji and film Leica cant handle.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Have you looked THROUGH the EVF instead of at it? Numbers do not make an image. I guess the EVF is by Panasonic and close to the GX8 one, which is pretty darn good.I don't think it's ugly at all, I think it looks nice and stylish. If this is ugly, point out a Japanese digi cam that is good looking. It's not as nice looking as an M, but what is?
This bit sells it for me as I would use it with mf Leica lenses:
"I made some detailed comparisons between the Fuji X-T2, the Leica M10, SL and the CL using the new version of the 28 M Summicron Asph and the 50 M Summilux Asph. Images from the CL did very well with both lenses with minimum vignetting and no visible smearing. Very comparable to those from the Leica SL and nearly as good as those from the Leica M10. In comparison, the Fuji images were poor, even on the 50 ‘lux; the centre was sharp, but smearing was very evident away from the centre of the image. Leica have obviously worked hard to make the camera do well with M lenses.
I have had a long discussion with Sean Reid at ReidReviews about this and he agrees with me. He feels that the issue is largely to do with the thickness of the cover glass (the CL does not have an AA filter). Of course, Fujifilm have other priorities, and you wouldn’t expect them to spend a lot of time and money compromising their sensor design for other manufacturers to sell more lenses!"
The price of $2800 puts it close to the used price of the M240. But this thing is smaller, is new, has a higher max shutter speed of 1/8000 sec for all those daylight wide open shooting junkies, and has a warranty.
One thing, Slack mentions "It has a built in EVF (not the same as the Visoflex) ", yet Leica's specs show it has the same resolution as the Visoflex, which is 2.4-ish mp which is about half of the SL. I find it hard to believe it is not the same as offered with the M10. It is also much less than the 3.7mp offered in the Q. The Leica Q is much more expensive (but that price includes the 28mm lens and is a FF camera), but it still is disappointing that this all new Leica camera gets some seriously old tech inside it. And this is not some innocuous that most wouldn't 'see', this is the viewfinder.
And herein lies the rub that I have with new digital Leica cameras. They are always way behind the curve with the latest tech. They have it (see the vf in the Q and the SL), but choose to introduce new models with tech that is 5 years old. No Japanese mfg would ever do that. They wouldn't survive. But Leica does that because, unfortunately, people buy them - let's be honest here - because of the badge.
I was 'this close' to considering this CL due to its size and lens compatibility with my M glass. But seeing that EVF in it. What a disappointment.