Leica CL & Elmarit to be announced on 11/21/17

[Huss]

Sean Reid on his subscription site has a CL review and tested it with a couple of wide M lenses. His findings are the edges and corners are soft on the CL. I was hopeful of the CL being an APS-C EVF M alternative, but I'm not (yet) seeing it.

http://www.slack.co.uk/leica-cl.html
I made some detailed comparisons between the Fuji X-T2, the Leica M10, SL and the CL using the new version of the 28 M Summicron Asph and the 50 M Summilux Asph. Images from the CL did very well with both lenses with minimum vignetting and no visible smearing. Very comparable to those from the Leica SL and nearly as good as those from the Leica M10. In comparison, the Fuji images were poor, even on the 50 ‘lux; the centre was sharp, but smearing was very evident away from the centre of the image. Leica have obviously worked hard to make the camera do well with M lenses.

I have had a long discussion with Sean Reid at ReidReviews about this and he agrees with me. He feels that the issue is largely to do with the thickness of the cover glass (the CL does not have an AA filter). Of course, Fujifilm have other priorities, and you wouldn’t expect them to spend a lot of time and money compromising their sensor design for other manufacturers to sell more lenses!

 

[ptpdprinter]

http://www.slack.co.uk/leica-cl.html
I made some detailed comparisons between the Fuji X-T2, the Leica M10, SL and the CL using the new version of the 28 M Summicron Asph and the 50 M Summilux Asph. Images from the CL did very well with both lenses with minimum vignetting and no visible smearing. Very comparable to those from the Leica SL and nearly as good as those from the Leica M10. In comparison, the Fuji images were poor, even on the 50 ‘lux; the centre was sharp, but smearing was very evident away from the centre of the image. Leica have obviously worked hard to make the camera do well with M lenses.

Since you have trotted out this review quote again, I'll trot out my response again as well.

Minimum vignetting? One would hope there is no vignetting. The 28 Summicron and 50 Summilux are both designed to cover full frame, which is considerably larger than the APS-C sensor. Only the center of the image circle is being used. Classic BS review.

 

[ptpdprinter]

Even more so... but Panasonic does not have the name to charge this price. That is why Leica gets heat. They do have the name to charge this price.

Ergo, you are paying for the name?

 

[ptpdprinter]

I have had a long discussion with Sean Reid at ReidReviews about this and he agrees with me. He feels that the issue is largely to do with the thickness of the cover glass (the CL does not have an AA filter). Of course, Fujifilm have other priorities, and you wouldn’t expect them to spend a lot of time and money compromising their sensor design for other manufacturers to sell more lenses!

Of course, the Fuji doesn't have an AA filter either, so maybe the issue is not with the thickness of the cover glass. Do either of them know the thicknesses of the respective cover glasses? Or are the just BSing? Again, I'm not sure why these two lenses would be unsharp on the edges of a Fuji APS-C sensor given the FF image circle. I don't think it is the angle of the light rays as with the FF bodies, particularly with a non-WA design like the 50 Summicron.

 

[Bille]

Leica is like this guy...when they have a problem...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmzsWxPLIOo

I think Leica handles (and handled) the M9 corrosion problem very well. Where else do you get a lifetime warranty repair for a camera sensor?

 

[jsrockit]

Ergo, you are paying for the name?

Me no... I don't have any Leicas anymore. In the case of the M or the Q, at least you get something unique. In this case, you do not (outside of build quality / ergonomics). The name on this camera is what allows it to be $2795 vs. the most expensive APSC mirrorless cameras of $1495 or $1699. Then again, Olympus gets $1999 for the EM1 MKII.

 

[jsrockit]

I think Leica handles (and handled) the M9 corrosion problem very well. Where else do you get a lifetime warranty repair for a camera sensor?

Not at Leica or anywhere...

 

[Emile de Leon]

I think Leica handles (and handled) the M9 corrosion problem very well. Where else do you get a lifetime warranty repair for a camera sensor?

They went back on their word..and cancelled...their..."Lifetime" sensor replacement policy..
And took forever to even acknowledge the problem..
As in.."I know nothing..nothing..." lol..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmzsWxPLIOo
I was going to buy an M9 back in the day...
Sure glad I passed on that one..

 

[BlackXList]

There will be no Panasonic version, it is purely by Leica. However, Panasonic and Leica cooperate strongly on technical matters. The 15 mm lens does look a lot like the 14 mm by Panasonic, but it cannot be the same, as it is for a different sensor format. However, Panasonic, in turn, cooperated with Leica to design their lens.

VERY doubtful, since it takes the same Panasonic battery as the V-Lux and the Q and the Pansonic Lumix DMC-G5, DMC-G6, DMC-G7, DMC-GH2, DMC-FZ200, DMC-FZ200GK, and the DMC-FZ1000

 

[ptpdprinter]

I think Leica handles (and handled) the M9 corrosion problem very well. Where else do you get a lifetime warranty repair for a camera sensor?

As noted, Leica reneged on their promise. The "lifetime" warranty expired on August 15, 2017. If you missed it, future sensor replacements will run $1000 or so, at least while they are still available. If you have an MM, good luck. Who knows what the wait will be after they work through their backlog of warranty sensor replacements.

 

[maggieo]

You know, I think I already have that camera...


Olympus Pen-F With Tom Abrahamson Soft Release, March 18, 2017 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr

 

[jsrockit]

You know, I think I already have that camera...

Well... with a smaller sensor, worse build quality, worse menus, etc... but yeah, pretty much the template.

 

[Ken Ford]

Well... with a smaller sensor, worse build quality, worse menus, etc... but yeah, pretty much the template.

... and that goofy “slow styles” dial on the front. I wanted to like the Pen, but...

 

[jsrockit]

I wanted to like it too Ken, but I just couldn't.

 

[maggieo]

Well... with a smaller sensor, worse build quality, worse menus, etc... but yeah, pretty much the template.

Gets the job done. At a decent price point.

 

[Huss]

I think Leica handles (and handled) the M9 corrosion problem very well. Where else do you get a lifetime warranty repair for a camera sensor?

You actually believe that?
They already re-negged on their sensor replacements.

 

[maggieo]

A single datum: I got my M9-P sensor replaced, no hassle, aside from a two-month, three week, wait.

I bought the Pen-F to stand in for the M this Summer. I'm pleasantly surprised at how capable it is.

 

[David Hughes]

It was the batch made between 2009 to 2014.

Thanks, that raises a lot of questions but I doubt if I'll have any time to think them all through over the next few days or even weeks.

But there's one question at the top of the heap:- Was something changed for that batch?

Regards, David

PS Thinking about the bumps on the back of the pre-war Contax and then thinking about my R5 I wonder about a lot of things and the R5 appeared 50 years after the Contax so long term problems should have been known about...

 

[Godfrey]

A single datum: I got my M9-P sensor replaced, no hassle, aside from a two-month, three week, wait.

I bought the Pen-F to stand in for the M this Summer. I'm pleasantly surprised at how capable it is.

I still have an Olympus E-PL7 that I often forget I own (it's on loan to a friend of mine this past four months and you've just reminded me of it!). It also is a remarkably capable little camera and performs well even with the economy line of Olympus' compact lenses.

I ignore all the amuzing geegaws when I'm using it and use it in much the same way I use the M-D, plus AF. It's small, light, handy, and worth so little I debate whether it's sensible to sell it. It and a two-lens kit, with the EVF-4, can fit in a tiny little padded case and go anywhere; you hardly notice it's there. When I have it, I toss in in my bicycle backpack or motorcycle tank bag without a thought: an easy thing to live with. There's a place in the world for such things.

G

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Thanks, that raises a lot of questions but I doubt if I'll have any time to think them all through over the next few days or even weeks.

But there's one question at the top of the heap:- Was something changed for that batch?

Regards, David
...

You have quoted wrong assumptions about batch. My M-E is 2015. Corroded...