Leica CL VS. Voigtlander Bessa R

Leica CL VS. Voigtlander Bessa R

  • Leica CL

    Votes: 198 56.7%

  • Bessa R

    Votes: 72 20.6%

  • Bessa R2

    Votes: 24 6.9%

  • Bessa R2M

    Votes: 55 15.8%
  • Total voters
    349
FrankS said:
A basic factor in favour of the CL is its M mount.

An M mount camera like the CL can be fitted with M mount lenses and screw mount lenses via adaptor.

A screw mount camera like the Bessa R can only be fitted with screw mount lenses. No M mount lenses can be used.
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Frank has forwarded the decisive issue.

It's the same story as why the Neerthentalian tribes went extinct while the Crew Magnum survived. And at least in camera gear I myself am even not a Neerthentalian, but some sort of dyno with my Kiev/Contax mount !

Cheers,
Ruben
 
The Bessa R was my intro into non FSU screw mount cameras. Still have it. Have since acquired a Canon P and 2 Leicas. Still use the Bessa. LTM lenses are as good as and CHEAPER than the M equivalents. It's a great place to start, with no major electronic worries. And it works without batteries in case you run dry. I don't think the CL does (or am I thinking CLE?)

Anyway - Daring to disagree with Ruben, the availability of M lenses should not be the decisive factor. It's a minor factor.
 
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The CL works with no batteries. Only the meter would be non-operative. The spot meter is a nice feature of the CL, in fact what I'd consider a major point in it's favor, but a CL with no meter is still a CL, and as such, a very nice camera to use. There aren't many options when it comes to compact M-mount bodies - make that NO options.

That said, the CV bodies are slick pieces, and seem to hold value far better than I'd prefer (I'm either poor or cheap lol). IMHO they cost what they are worth, and the fact you don't see used CV bodies going for a fraction of their new price is a testament of their very real value and quality. Personally I'm always torn between a CV body and a good CL. The rangefinder base is comparable, but the CL metering and shutter dial is the trump card for me. I suppose at some point I will have to own both a CL and CV body.

As has been said, an M mount Bessa is a better thing unless you already have LTM lenses or an M mount body. IMHO, being restricted to LTM lenses is like being restricted to dating former supermodels - you are doing fine if that's your only limitation :) But being able to mount M lenses as well with a single LTM-M adapter is a better situation, all else being equal. Just tack US$50 to the price of an M-mount Bessa.

Realistically, tack US$50 per LTM focal length you own if you go with the CL, since the Bessa's have manually selectable framelines making the "right" adapter a foolish expense. (That makes a mountain out of a molehill, don't let "improper" framlines stop you from buying a camera. I dislike extraneous framelines as much as the next, and the CL only has 40mm always visible, with the 50mm and 90mm depending on the lens mount. Just go with the smallest frame in the finder. 50mm is slightly smaller than 40, and 90 is slightly larger than the rf spot.)

IMHO, buy a CL if you want a very compact body for LTM or M lenses. Go with a Bessa if you want a cheaper alternative to an M body. The CL has a spot meter, which if you never used one in a camera sounds like a meaningless distinction. The CL is worth it just for the small size. Paradoxically, if you like fast lenses the Bessa is probably better from a handling standpoint - the CL is a small body that is easily over-balanced by a large lens.
 
ruben said:
Frank has forwarded the decisive issue.

It's the same story as why the Neerthentalian tribes went extinct while the Crew Magnum survived. And at least in camera gear I myself am even not a Neerthentalian, but some sort of dyno with my Kiev/Contax mount !

Cheers,
Ruben
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...er...can someone please explain ? :eek:
 
Dave Wilkinson said:
...er...can someone please explain ? :eek:
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Neanderthal man (like the Bessa R) it is believed, had a limited ability to adapt, compared to Cro Magnon man (like the Leica CL and an M mount lens adaptor), and became extinct, while the Cro Magnon branch continued.
 
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i'd have to say the cl, of course... ,-)

seriously, apart from plugging a little shamelessly, i feel it's just so much better than the two bessas i've had, a t and an r3m. sure the rf could be more accurate (it's not the camera to focus action shots with a 90mm), and the vf different, but the rf holds alignment, the film sprocket holes don't always fall in between frames, it just feels a whole lot more solid. and it's smaller too. best i stop writing about it before i change my mind about selling it ,-)
 
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Got my CL 2 weeks ago, using a pre-asph ron 35mm, Summmarit 50mm and a vc 15mm on it. I love it's size, meter layout in the VF.Plus the shutter dial is in the perfect position, in my point of view, it score better than an M6! The only down size is it is over 30 years old, just hope it will work without problems but I broke the frame count spring on the first day already. Did a test roll few days ago, meter is right on, even the Summarit performs better on it with film compare the output from the said lens with a Pana G1.
The 35mm lens on a 40mm frame line is not much of an issue, just add a few more seconds on taking a shot as one need to eyeball the frame from left to right then up and down beyond the frame line a bit more. As with the 35mm lens, both the 40mm and 50mm frame line show up, so it is not hard to figure out where the 35mm frame is going to be.
Is it really that hard to find the battery, do anyone knows?
 
It's not that hard. There's a number of alternatives to the battery, and even mercury batteries pop up regularly on eBay over here. I currently have mercury PX625s in both the M5 and the Canonet.

The nice thing about the old meter circuits is that they don't eat the battery as long as it's dark, so if you leave the lens cap on a battery will last for a long time.

On another note: is there a way to unsubscribe from a thread?
EDIT: There seems to be. Edit your own post, go to "Go advanced". Under "Additional options", there's an option "Thread subscription". Change that to "Do not subscribe", and the thread at least shouldn't pop up in your User CP when someone else votes.
 
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rxmd said:
It's not that hard. There's a number of alternatives to the battery, and even mercury batteries pop up regularly on eBay over here. I currently have mercury PX625s in both the M5 and the Canonet.

The nice thing about the old meter circuits is that they don't eat the battery as long as it's dark, so if you leave the lens cap on a battery will last for a long time.

On another note: is there a way to unsubscribe from a thread?
EDIT: There seems to be. Edit your own post, go to "Go advanced". Under "Additional options", there's an option "Thread subscription". Change that to "Do not subscribe", and the thread at least shouldn't pop up in your User CP when someone else votes.
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You're giving up so early in the thread, after only a few years?. ;-) My avatar was a current model when this started?

And no one mentioned that the CL also has 50mm frame lines.
 
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I voted for the CL by buying one! My 1st interchangeable lens RF.

Decision was made easier for me in that I got it for less than an R2M. I still have to get a lens for it though.

I think I'll still eventually get one of the R's, probably the R3 but I'd like to see how things go with the CL before I can say for sure
 
I doubt the CL is much more reliable than an R, it seems like half of the ones on eBay have broken meters. As far as my experience, I bought a CL with the 40mm lens on eBay. Jammed within the first 20 shots or so. Returned it to seller. The shutter is barely quieter than my R3a, if you want quiet, you can buy a much cheaper fixed lens RF with a leaf shutter. The Bessas have their own issues (peely skin, RF vertical alignment coming undone), but I think they make better starter cameras.

I liked the size and "feel" the CL and would like to own one someday as a secondary body, but hopefully one without issues.
 
rxmd said:
The nice thing about the old meter circuits is that they don't eat the battery as long as it's dark, so if you leave the lens cap on a battery will last for a long time.
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So is this definitely true of the light meter circuit in the CL? I just picked one up recently and decided to take it traveling over christmas instead of the bessa or the hexar, but I was a little worried about the advance lever getting pulled out in my bag or pocket and draining the battery.

Also, I have picked up a few of the wein cell non-mercury replacement batteries. As I understand it they have a shorter life than the mercury originals, so roughly how long can I expect one to last under normal usage? 5 rolls? 25? 50? I really have no idea.
 
I've been using an old battery from an Minolta SRT and it has been working fine, exposure on the photos are good.. So including age of battery and usage ( about 4 rolls so far ) Mine's not a powerhog, I think.

I'll be ordering adapter shortly.
 
shambla said:
So is this definitely true of the light meter circuit in the CL? I just picked one up recently and decided to take it traveling over christmas instead of the bessa or the hexar, but I was a little worried about the advance lever getting pulled out in my bag or pocket and draining the battery.

Also, I have picked up a few of the wein cell non-mercury replacement batteries. As I understand it they have a shorter life than the mercury originals, so roughly how long can I expect one to last under normal usage? 5 rolls? 25? 50? I really have no idea.
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A year at least, in my experience. After a year I forget when I put the new battery in, so I can't say definitively. All it provides is a very tiny amount of power to move a needle relative to the amount of light. And the CL has a built-in tester to let you know when it is bad.
 
filmfan said:
The fact that the CL is leading the poll only goes to show the power of brand names...
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Perhaps but, it is a great little camera and i love mine. Of course I'm sure you would get different results with this poll in the Bessa forum. I'm sure a Bessa works well also though I have never used one.
 
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