Toni H.
Newbie
Hello
I'm buying my first serious RF body. But before I go and spend all of my money to camera I would like to hear your opinion which one of these would be better. I think I'm leaning towards the leica, but you can try to talk me out of it. I am looking for a camera that I can take with me every time I leave home. The leica could be ideal because it's smaler. I think I'm going to buy more serious body later (most likely a r3A or some "real" leica) and then I could use the cl as a backup body and carryallday camera. Thanks for advices.
Here's some of my thought's about the good's and bad's of the cameras. Someone could verify the ones marked with question mark.
CL
+ It's Leica
+ Small
+ Better build (?)
+ M mount
+ more silent than the bessa
+ Looks better IMHO
- They are getting quite old.
- Risk of getting a dead meter/shutter etc.
- Viewfinder
Bessa
+ New
+ Better metering (?)
+ Much better viewfinder (?)
- More plastic parts
- Not as well build
- "Only" m39 mount
I'm buying my first serious RF body. But before I go and spend all of my money to camera I would like to hear your opinion which one of these would be better. I think I'm leaning towards the leica, but you can try to talk me out of it. I am looking for a camera that I can take with me every time I leave home. The leica could be ideal because it's smaler. I think I'm going to buy more serious body later (most likely a r3A or some "real" leica) and then I could use the cl as a backup body and carryallday camera. Thanks for advices.
Here's some of my thought's about the good's and bad's of the cameras. Someone could verify the ones marked with question mark.
CL
+ It's Leica
+ Small
+ Better build (?)
+ M mount
+ more silent than the bessa
+ Looks better IMHO
- They are getting quite old.
- Risk of getting a dead meter/shutter etc.
- Viewfinder
Bessa
+ New
+ Better metering (?)
+ Much better viewfinder (?)
- More plastic parts
- Not as well build
- "Only" m39 mount
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I do not have a Bessa, but do have the Leica CL and a lot of other "classic" RF's. The CL can easily be serviced if you get one at a good price. $128 will get a CLA at Essex. The camera has a sharp VF/RF, smooth advance, and is not loud. As a "take-itanywhere" camera, it is as small as any compact 35mm RF. As a backup, I drop it with its 40mm F2 into a lens compartment of a Field Bag.
back alley
IMAGES
the best start up kit nowadays, considering cost and future growth etc. is the bessa r & 35.2 outfit.
joe
joe
W
wlewisiii
Guest
If I were in your spot, I'd get the Bessa as my starting camera. Right now they are still available from Cameraquest (and elsewhere) with the 35/2.5 for $425 whereas a CL with the 40mm lens will set you back a minimum of ~$600. That $175 will buy a lot of film that can get you going.
Once you have the Bessa, then you can start saving for the Leica of your choice. That may be the CL, a M7 or even, if you're like me, a M5
Plus, while the Bessa is only screw mount, any lens you buy for it can be adapted easily to your later camera.
Most folks around here like the CL. I don't - I find it too small to use comfortably and the meter needle is backwards to every other match needle camera I've used. Plus there are the eventual issues with parts availability. In the end, after shooting some test film with the CL before selling it for my friend, I wasn't really sad to see it go.
Hope these comments are of some help,
William
Once you have the Bessa, then you can start saving for the Leica of your choice. That may be the CL, a M7 or even, if you're like me, a M5
Plus, while the Bessa is only screw mount, any lens you buy for it can be adapted easily to your later camera. Most folks around here like the CL. I don't - I find it too small to use comfortably and the meter needle is backwards to every other match needle camera I've used. Plus there are the eventual issues with parts availability. In the end, after shooting some test film with the CL before selling it for my friend, I wasn't really sad to see it go.
Hope these comments are of some help,
William
MCTuomey
Veteran
I'm a newbie, too, Toni. The problem with making a decision on your first RF is you need to differentiate personally between RFs to make the decision well. But to differentiate personally you need to have experience with at least one RF. For that you need to have an RF which you don't have because you haven't made the decision which to buy. Argghhh!
For my part, I chose to buy a new Bessa rather than a used Leica or equivalent. Why? Because I was worried about getting a used camera that would need ongoing care. I wanted something reliable out-of-the-box, as much as possible. Also, I didn't have a lot of money and didn't want the unknowns of potential repairs hanging over my head.
It is your first RF, so don't worry overly much. It won't likely be your last ;-))
For my part, I chose to buy a new Bessa rather than a used Leica or equivalent. Why? Because I was worried about getting a used camera that would need ongoing care. I wanted something reliable out-of-the-box, as much as possible. Also, I didn't have a lot of money and didn't want the unknowns of potential repairs hanging over my head.
It is your first RF, so don't worry overly much. It won't likely be your last ;-))
aizan
Veteran
i'm not a fan of the 3 led meter display, so i'd get a cl, r3a, or r2a over an r or r2. the cl's meter display is intuitive once you see it's aligned with the direction you must turn the shutter speed dial or aperture ring, and the r*a's row of shutter speeds is excellent.
back alley
IMAGES
It won't likely be your last...
truer words were never spoken...
joe
truer words were never spoken...
joe
Huck Finn
Well-known
Some additions to your list:
CL
+ will focus a few inches closer than a Bessa R (about 31" vs 35")
- only has 40mm frame lines built in, diminishing the RF strength which is with wide angles
R
+ new AND warranteed
+ longer effective base length
CL
+ will focus a few inches closer than a Bessa R (about 31" vs 35")
- only has 40mm frame lines built in, diminishing the RF strength which is with wide angles
R
+ new AND warranteed
+ longer effective base length
Solinar
Analog Preferred
CL, again
+ Removeable back with a Rollei 35/Zeiss Ikon type hinged pressure plate
- Need to pocket the back while loading film
If my Bessa R was built this way, I truly be a happy camper. Seriously.
+ Removeable back with a Rollei 35/Zeiss Ikon type hinged pressure plate
- Need to pocket the back while loading film
If my Bessa R was built this way, I truly be a happy camper. Seriously.
FrankS
Registered User
Andrew, do you figure the removeable back/hinged pressure plate design holds the film flatter?
chug
I wear pants
I am only a Bessa R owner, I have no Leica so I cant say much on the CL. But I can say lots on the R. The only one I need to say is this: Its cheaper. From what I have seen anyway.
Either way they both do the same thing and thats taking pictures.
Either way they both do the same thing and thats taking pictures.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Frank, that's my theory and my Rollei 35S seems to have it down pretty well. If nothing else, it inspires confidence.
I believe the CL also calls for some workaround on the mercury battery problem...
But I think small size of the CL and its inconspicuous appearance are advantages. And that it hangs vertically from its strap attachments.
But I think small size of the CL and its inconspicuous appearance are advantages. And that it hangs vertically from its strap attachments.
R
Roman
Guest
I just got a CL - haven't even finished my first roll of film with it yet, and have been using a Bessa R for quite a bit of time, here is my thoughts so far:
The two great plusses of the CL are its compact size for carrying, and its much more quiet shutter (the loud shutter for me is the worst point about the R), but in my hands it does not feel as comfortable/ergonomic as the Bessa R; I'm particularly displeased that the wind-lever always has to stand out for shooting/metering, and I don't like the strap-lug placement, which makes it impossible to use with a short wriststrap. It does feel a bit more solid, though.
Unless you really, really need the quiet shutter, and have very limited space (after all, the Bessa R with a 35/2.5 will also fit most jacket pockets), go for the Bessa!
Roman
The two great plusses of the CL are its compact size for carrying, and its much more quiet shutter (the loud shutter for me is the worst point about the R), but in my hands it does not feel as comfortable/ergonomic as the Bessa R; I'm particularly displeased that the wind-lever always has to stand out for shooting/metering, and I don't like the strap-lug placement, which makes it impossible to use with a short wriststrap. It does feel a bit more solid, though.
Unless you really, really need the quiet shutter, and have very limited space (after all, the Bessa R with a 35/2.5 will also fit most jacket pockets), go for the Bessa!
Roman
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N
Nick R.
Guest
Toni,
Monetarily, I don't think you'll do too bad with either choice. The prices of CL's are pretty stable, so even if you don't like it and resell it, you won't lose much, if anything. And the R's with the 35/2.5 are such a bargain right now that I can't see them selling much lower on the used market (depending on condition, of course).
I've owned an R. The noisy shutter was a deal breaker for me. But aside from that, it's a good camera.
Monetarily, I don't think you'll do too bad with either choice. The prices of CL's are pretty stable, so even if you don't like it and resell it, you won't lose much, if anything. And the R's with the 35/2.5 are such a bargain right now that I can't see them selling much lower on the used market (depending on condition, of course).
I've owned an R. The noisy shutter was a deal breaker for me. But aside from that, it's a good camera.
Toni H.
Newbie
Thanks for everyone for the advices.
I have decided to go with the cl. The cheap look and the plastic parts of the r scared me away and theres just something about the cl that fascinates me. There aren't also any proof how durable the R is because it's so new camera. R could be more easier to shoot but it just doesen't have that something.
Have someone used 35mm lens in cl. I have heard that the the outer lines in cl's viewfinder are aproximately 35mm. How hard it is to compose the picture with 35mm lens. In the first place I thought to get The 40mm f:1.4 Nokton to go with the cl, but the bokeh seem's to be so ugly that I'm now considering the 35/1.7 Ultron (Yes I know the 40mm rokkor/Summicron-C). Karen Nakamura seem's to use 35mm in his cl.
I have decided to go with the cl. The cheap look and the plastic parts of the r scared me away and theres just something about the cl that fascinates me. There aren't also any proof how durable the R is because it's so new camera. R could be more easier to shoot but it just doesen't have that something.
Have someone used 35mm lens in cl. I have heard that the the outer lines in cl's viewfinder are aproximately 35mm. How hard it is to compose the picture with 35mm lens. In the first place I thought to get The 40mm f:1.4 Nokton to go with the cl, but the bokeh seem's to be so ugly that I'm now considering the 35/1.7 Ultron (Yes I know the 40mm rokkor/Summicron-C). Karen Nakamura seem's to use 35mm in his cl.
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R
RML
Guest
I have both, and they complement each other. I use the R with my J8 50/2; the CL with my CV 25/4 (or, when on holiday and only bringing the CL, my Rokkor-M 40/2). I can no longer live without either. I use them for different types of shooting and for different situations.
If I were you I'd start with the R and progress to a CL (and a little later probably to a nice M2 or M3). Buy from a reputable dealer who offers a warranty. Replacing the swing arm meter is possible (Sherry Kraut? does that). The mercury battery might not be a problem if you live in the US; outside the US you'll have to come up with your own solution (buying those batteries on eBay for instance).
If I were you I'd start with the R and progress to a CL (and a little later probably to a nice M2 or M3). Buy from a reputable dealer who offers a warranty. Replacing the swing arm meter is possible (Sherry Kraut? does that). The mercury battery might not be a problem if you live in the US; outside the US you'll have to come up with your own solution (buying those batteries on eBay for instance).
Huck Finn
Well-known
Toni, since you prefer a 35mm lens, why not consider a used Bessa R2? It is has an all-metal body instead of the R's plastic body & it has 35 mm frame lines. Prices for a used R2 run less than a CL - & a CL body can be hard to find without the 40 mm lens since the CL/40-Summicron combination is often sold as a package.
Toni H.
Newbie
R2 would be nice, but they are sold out in most places. They are also much more expencive than cl. Finding a cl body only isn't a problem.Huck Finn said:
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GeneW
Veteran
Toni, I think it's good to go with the camera that speaks to you. It's often that visceral connection that counts more than comparative features.Toni H. said:
Now, if I could only quit hearing so many of them
Gene