Leica LTM Leica Clones/Replicas

[NL2377]

On ebay there are several sellers who have Leica Clones (barnack style cameras with leitz engravings on both the cloned body and cloned f3.5 lens.)
Here is an example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-Copy-Airf...0QQihZ015QQcategoryZ15234QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I just won an auction for one of these ($50 shipped) and was wondering what I should expect. Obviously I don't expect leica quality, but does anyone know anything about these imposters?

Is it just a remasked Zorki or something of the sort?

What kind of shutter do these have?

Any information online?

If these things turn out to be decent little rangefinders, then I may just have to pick up a couple of them. I love the barnack style, and I've got to admit, some of the crazy covers etc, really appeal to me. (I guess I'm camera kinky!)

 

[jesse1dog]

I've seen these items for sale and wondered about them. But then I asked myself why was I attracted. Did I want one to use instead of my Leica? Was I just curious as to the quality? Did I want to try to fool others into thinking I was using a Leica when I wasn't? Did I want it for show? Then I looked again at the lenses they had - they all seemed to be 3.5 Elmar copies until I spotted a 2.8f. That got me looking at non LeicaII clones and I found they had a variety of lenses - no Jupiter 3s but Jupiter 8s were there. I understand that this is a 'good' lens and at the prices of later FSU Zorki and Feds it would seem a reasonable proposition to buy one just for the lens alone. Don't know what lenses you have for your Leica but it might be a way of picking up an f2 lens to extend the collection and give you something a bit different photographically. Just a thought.

 

[Bill58]

A shop named Cameramate somewhere in Europe sells a lot of really ugly fakes off the 'net.

Bill

 

[NL2377]

I've seen these items for sale and wondered about them. But then I asked myself why was I attracted. Did I want one to use instead of my Leica? Was I just curious as to the quality? Did I want to try to fool others into thinking I was using a Leica when I wasn't? Did I want it for show? Then I looked again at the lenses they had - they all seemed to be 3.5 Elmar copies until I spotted a 2.8f. That got me looking at non LeicaII clones and I found they had a variety of lenses - no Jupiter 3s but Jupiter 8s were there. I understand that this is a 'good' lens and at the prices of later FSU Zorki and Feds it would seem a reasonable proposition to buy one just for the lens alone. Don't know what lenses you have for your Leica but it might be a way of picking up an f2 lens to extend the collection and give you something a bit different photographically. Just a thought.

Haha, I'm not sure why I am so attracted, either. I guess since part of me is slightly mischevious and rebelious, I can respect the fact that others decided to modify copyies w/ the name badges. I actually bought a couple of them since I got them so inexpensive... another one that I got was about $30 shipped. and you cant even buy a zorki or fed w/ lens for that.

I've got a J8 coming in to use on my IIc, so we will see how that pans out.

 

[NL2377]

A shop named Cameramate somewhere in Europe sells a lot of really ugly fakes off the 'net.

Bill

While some of them are indeed ugly, I actually like several of them... I have decided not to modify my leica IIc in any way just because it's sort of a collectors peice, so these allow me to have some of the wierd accents that I like, while being relatively inexpensive. Some are also very classy, such as the wood-grained brass ones. I plan on making one of my brass clones look like this, probably with real wood, too. but I think I will go w/ a cherry finish.

 

[Dougg]

Certain models of Zorkii and/or FED closely resemble some early Leica models, easing the job of faking. The faking is surely intended to raise the value of the item, which implies that you can get an original Zorkii or FED in equal condition for less. I rather suspect the vendors of these believe they'll be used more for status/display than for serious photography. So if they don't work very well, it's not likely to be a problem to the buyer! That was my experience with a Kiev faked up to look like a Contax II; looked good at first, not so good under close examination, and the shutter works properly only on a few mid-speeds. There is a certain mischievous charm in outright fakery, but at the price I'd hope they work properly too.

 

[Nando]

Although I've seen many bad fakes, I find some of these fakes to be rather ingenious and rather attractive. On the occasion I find an interesting one, I think about buying another Bessa-T body and sending it to one of these Russian craftsmen to customize. Not to make it into a fake Leica, but to add perhaps some custom engravings, new paint finish, etc without ruining the mechanics. To pimp the camera, so to speak.

 

[NL2377]

Although I've seen many bad fakes, I find some of these fakes to be rather ingenious and rather attractive. On the occasion I find an interesting one, I think about buying another Bessa-T body and sending it to one of these Russian craftsmen to customize. Not to make it into a fake Leica, but to add perhaps some custom engravings, new paint finish, etc without ruining the mechanics. To pimp the camera, so to speak.

Yes... pimping the camera... I think I may end up doing that to one of my leica clones. I've been pondering the Idea of adding a hinged back, an SLR style film take up spool, and a lever wind.

 

[Xmas]

A Fed or Zorki that has just been CLAed is better then one that has just been painted and will be more valuable eventually, it wont have wet paint on it? The Zorki should have a coated lens ans should be better then a Leitz 3.5?

Noel

 

[rxmd]

While some of them are indeed ugly, I actually like several of them...

So do I.

And they do put some real work into their fakes. I mean look at this "Leica I":

Or this cork-covered "Luftwaffenleica":

It's certainly not a Leica, and doesn't have much user value either, and they're much too expensive at 150 EUR, but still the genre of Leica copies has a charm of its own. And if you get any odd specimen, you can be sure it's pretty unique. A bit like a low-end version of "Leica à la carte".

Philipp

 

[NL2377]

So do I.

And they do put some real work into their fakes. I mean look at this "Leica I":

It's certainly not a Leica, and doesn't have much user value either, and they're much too expensive at 150 EUR, but still the genre of Leica copies has a charm of its own. And if you get any odd specimen, you can be sure it's pretty unique. A bit like a low-end version of "Leica à la carte".

Philipp

Thanks, Pihilipp for the images. I really like the concept of the "leica 1" (I have a bessa L) so if you're willing to let go of it sometime, let me know ;-)

 

[NL2377]

A Fed or Zorki that has just been CLAed is better then one that has just been painted and will be more valuable eventually, it wont have wet paint on it? The Zorki should have a coated lens ans should be better then a Leitz 3.5?

Noel

Noel, these replicas are based off of a fed/zorki, and come w/ coated lenses IIRC. It's all about fun and games, my friend. fun and games... ;-)

 

[Xmas]

Nicholas

Sorry too serious at heart... a camera works perfectly or needs to be in pieces... I have a Fed 1, just waiting until it fails, then wait for the little screws everywhere. Actually the slow speeds are off but I can live with this until it rains.

Noel

 

[ZorkiKat]

A Fed or Zorki that has just been CLAed is better then one that has just been painted and will be more valuable eventually, it wont have wet paint on it? The Zorki should have a coated lens ans should be better then a Leitz 3.5?

Noel

Many of these reworked cameras are found badly disassembled, and sometimes the fitting of the parts are off. It is also very likely that these painted and made-up cameras used parts which came from different cameras- cameras which were already bad as they were that they had to be made over to be sold with some value.

The reworking often gives more importance to cosmetics- how the faked Leica will look- rather than how it would shoot. I've three such Leicas. One gilded, whose chromium skin was stripped to reveal the 'golden' brass underneath darkened after two weeks of exposure to tropical climate. It functioned sluggishly until I took it apart and recalibrated it.

Another was originally an early FED, painted black and given red shutter blinds.
Mechanically impeccable, but the shutter cloth put in it wasn't opaque. Seller noted this ("this camera is not made for shooting"). Yes still bought it

A third is a nicely made black Leica "II". Serial numbers fall within the real II range. (See attachment) But trims and details on body and lens gave away its Zorki heritage


Jay

 

[NL2377]

I just got finished developing the first role from one of my leica clones... I'm actually pretty impressed w/ how the ones that were properly exposed came out. (no light meter, so I was using the sunny 16 rule.) Shot with some reala, I think im going to go w/ some CN400BW next time so I can get some grain in there (it just doesnt feel old unless it's got that grain... anyone know a slow speed (100-160iso) C41 film that has some grain????

http://www.nxfxstudios.com/leica1.jpg
and my motorcycle ;-)
http://www.nxfxstudios.com/leica2.jpg