david3558
leicaboss
Hey everyone,
Was super pumped to get my M6 TTL today! I had a roll of Fuji Superia 400 ready to go - had to run a test for sure!
Anyhow, I loaded up the camera, went to buy fresh batteries for the meter, and all was well. Took a bunch of shots but once I hit around 20-22 on the exposure count my film advance lever totally got stuck halfway as if it had already been cocked. I frantically tried to depress the shutter but realized it was stuck too... I anxiously tugged a little harder on the advance lever and felt a weird grinding as if the teeth were missing the sprockets on the film. Took a shot and then did it again, same thing happened the weird slipping/grinding sensation. I was starting to panic so I just gave up and rewound the film back in and haven't tested the camera since.
This is my first Leica so I'm not too sure what might be going on. I looked up potential issues and someone said I should turn the rewind lever/knob counterclockwise - I did so and eventually the knob actually tightened to the point where it stopped...was I not supposed to do that?
Finally, I need to mention that when I loaded the film, I did not use the rewind knob to take up potential slack, but everything leading up to the 20ish exposures was fine - saw some videos saying that people don't use that method, is that wrong?
Anyhow, thanks in advance for any help, totally freakin' out.
David
Was super pumped to get my M6 TTL today! I had a roll of Fuji Superia 400 ready to go - had to run a test for sure!
Anyhow, I loaded up the camera, went to buy fresh batteries for the meter, and all was well. Took a bunch of shots but once I hit around 20-22 on the exposure count my film advance lever totally got stuck halfway as if it had already been cocked. I frantically tried to depress the shutter but realized it was stuck too... I anxiously tugged a little harder on the advance lever and felt a weird grinding as if the teeth were missing the sprockets on the film. Took a shot and then did it again, same thing happened the weird slipping/grinding sensation. I was starting to panic so I just gave up and rewound the film back in and haven't tested the camera since.
This is my first Leica so I'm not too sure what might be going on. I looked up potential issues and someone said I should turn the rewind lever/knob counterclockwise - I did so and eventually the knob actually tightened to the point where it stopped...was I not supposed to do that?
Finally, I need to mention that when I loaded the film, I did not use the rewind knob to take up potential slack, but everything leading up to the 20ish exposures was fine - saw some videos saying that people don't use that method, is that wrong?
Anyhow, thanks in advance for any help, totally freakin' out.
David
Vickko
Veteran
I suppose you've done a web search on the issue.
I'm guessing that the film take-up isn't taking up the film properly, and after 20 or so shots, the film is jamming in the cavity. Once it jams, the sprocket wheel will try to pull the film, and run through the sprocket holes.
I don't think I'd try the same film again, as I would guess the sprocket holes are damaged.
Can you find someone close by, who knows Leica's, to figure it out?
Vick
I'm guessing that the film take-up isn't taking up the film properly, and after 20 or so shots, the film is jamming in the cavity. Once it jams, the sprocket wheel will try to pull the film, and run through the sprocket holes.
I don't think I'd try the same film again, as I would guess the sprocket holes are damaged.
Can you find someone close by, who knows Leica's, to figure it out?
Vick
Vickko
Veteran
Oh, there is another web thread, about washers getting loose on the rewind knob:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/leica_m_users/discuss/72157624055719202/
http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00OQ9E
Vick
http://www.flickr.com/groups/leica_m_users/discuss/72157624055719202/
http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00OQ9E
Vick
Vickko
Veteran
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
Without film in the camera can you cock and fire the shutter...???
david3558
leicaboss
Hey guys, really appreciate all the responses.
As for the last question, yes I can cock and fire off a shot without film loaded, it's perfect like that. Just got stuck after about 20 exposures... any other ideas?
As for the last question, yes I can cock and fire off a shot without film loaded, it's perfect like that. Just got stuck after about 20 exposures... any other ideas?
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
Find a junk roll of 36...load it and fire away, open the back and watch what's going on...
RFluhver
Well-known
This is very likely because of that loose washer that the other threads/websites are talking about. But can you just do something for me? Can you check if the top plate is loose? The issues are actually related but a loose top plate is a very basic and obvious sign.
Richard G
Veteran
There have been threads regarding some problem with the advance mechanism where it takes about 20 exposures to seize up. I have had a roll do this once and I couldn't rewind either, likely a different problem again. Taking out the film in a dark bag was the solution. Three years and many rolls later that has not happened again. So it's possible this a one-off.
david3558
leicaboss
How do I check if the top plate is loose, sorry if this seems like an obvious question.
Robert Lai
Well-known
I've had something similar happen before with LTM cameras. If the film slips off the sprockets in some way, the sprockets could tear the film, leading to a film chip that could jam the winding.
If you have a film leader retriever, then try to get the leader out of the original test film and see if there is a chunk of film missing from the edge where the "grinding" occurred.
Then look inside the camera carefully. If that loose piece of film gets caught in the film gate, the shutter gets jammed. Make sure that there aren't any bits of film floating around inside.
If you have a film leader retriever, then try to get the leader out of the original test film and see if there is a chunk of film missing from the edge where the "grinding" occurred.
Then look inside the camera carefully. If that loose piece of film gets caught in the film gate, the shutter gets jammed. Make sure that there aren't any bits of film floating around inside.
AndySig
Established
This might sound a bit daft but: is there a chance that you put a 24 exposure roll in the camera while assuming that it was a 36 roll? I ask this because the advance lever getting stuck sounds right for reaching the end of the film. If it is a 36 roll, I'd pull the film out by hand and see if it gets stuck at around the 22 mark.
This may also help if you are new to the camera: I found at first that I occasionally wasn't getting the film deep enough into the camera. I now reassure myself that it is right by gently pressing the film onto the take up spool teeth at the end nearest the base of the camera i.e. nearest me when loading. When I can feel the teeth standing proud of the sprockets, I know that the film is being engaged properly.
This may also help if you are new to the camera: I found at first that I occasionally wasn't getting the film deep enough into the camera. I now reassure myself that it is right by gently pressing the film onto the take up spool teeth at the end nearest the base of the camera i.e. nearest me when loading. When I can feel the teeth standing proud of the sprockets, I know that the film is being engaged properly.
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jordanstarr
J.R.Starr
I had this exact same problem. What initially happened was that the washers above and below the top plate were loose. This caused the fork that enters the film canister to bend slightly, causing a very rough crank. I tightened it and it worked for a bit, but then the fork inside broke. I bought the tools and replaced it myself.
Because you can use your shutter fine without film, there's a 99% chance it's on the rewind side. It could be loose washers, it could be that one of the two prongs on the fork inside is broken, causing it grind and eventually seize it. Either way, you will need some tools to investigate or send it right back where you got it for repairs. Chances are that the previous owner had this problem intermittently and just pawned off the problem onto you.
Just a word of caution/experience. I bought the tools to do it myself ($65) and the spare part ($20 from DAG). The repair was a success, but when I put the top on, the meter didn't work. Turns out if the washers on the left side with the rewind crank are too tight, the meter would stop working (don't even ask how that co-relates because I have no idea). I also knocked the vertical alignment out of wack a bit (it doesn't bug me a lot, but I wish it didn't happen). It will likely be about $100 or so to repair, but don't keep shooting it the way it is if you hear grinding.
Because you can use your shutter fine without film, there's a 99% chance it's on the rewind side. It could be loose washers, it could be that one of the two prongs on the fork inside is broken, causing it grind and eventually seize it. Either way, you will need some tools to investigate or send it right back where you got it for repairs. Chances are that the previous owner had this problem intermittently and just pawned off the problem onto you.
Just a word of caution/experience. I bought the tools to do it myself ($65) and the spare part ($20 from DAG). The repair was a success, but when I put the top on, the meter didn't work. Turns out if the washers on the left side with the rewind crank are too tight, the meter would stop working (don't even ask how that co-relates because I have no idea). I also knocked the vertical alignment out of wack a bit (it doesn't bug me a lot, but I wish it didn't happen). It will likely be about $100 or so to repair, but don't keep shooting it the way it is if you hear grinding.
ChrisN
Striving
This has been a very useful discussion, as I have had this happen once or twice with my M6 TTL. When I get it back (it's away to fix a shutter problem) I'll monitor it for this behaviour, and know how to deal with it.
Hurrah for RFF!
Hurrah for RFF!
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Fire a whole 36 blanks first to see if the camera also jams around 20-22 without any film in the camera.
If it gets more 'rough' at all around those numbers, there's something fishy going on in the gearing.
If it passes that test without any hesitation, it's the film or the rewind side that caused it.
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Bill58
Native Texan
I had a similar problem w/ my Canon Model P. I suspected a faulty roll of film (Lucky brand from China). I removed it and put in another roll and no more problems, so far.
david3558
leicaboss
Wow thanks for all the insight! I definitely am not sure what is going on but I also noticed when I first received my camera vertical alignment at infinity was slightly off...
david3558
leicaboss
I just fired off 36 blank shots (baseplate on and fired until it stopped at 38, wouldn't reach 40). Everything seemed to work fine. I suspect it definitely was the film or the film rewind side...
_goodtimez
Well-known
Just make sure the washers located right below the rewind crank are positivly locked (Clockwise).
If they are loose, when you crank the shutter and wind some film, they will loosen up to the point that they hit the bottom of the rewing crank, and at this point you cannot crank the shutter anymore.
When you rewind the film, the washers lock down again and you may be able to cock that shutter again, but for a limited number of times until the problem repeats.
Just watch these washers when you crank and rewind and make sure they are locked down towards the body.
If they are loose, when you crank the shutter and wind some film, they will loosen up to the point that they hit the bottom of the rewing crank, and at this point you cannot crank the shutter anymore.
When you rewind the film, the washers lock down again and you may be able to cock that shutter again, but for a limited number of times until the problem repeats.
Just watch these washers when you crank and rewind and make sure they are locked down towards the body.
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david3558
leicaboss
Hrm, how would I check to make sure the washers are tight, and how would I tighten it?
I also totally realized that when I turn there rewind crank, it is not completely smooth. It almost feels like every time I reach one point in the rotation I encounter a small bump/friction - is this normal?
I also totally realized that when I turn there rewind crank, it is not completely smooth. It almost feels like every time I reach one point in the rotation I encounter a small bump/friction - is this normal?