xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
as far as the ball bearing issue, the info I got from the book " Leica the First Fifty Years" on page 73 is that there was several types of Leicas for the german armed service but mainly ones derived from the IIIc, one famous special model was called the K model, from kugel lager. it had ball bearings at critical points in the shutter to make the shutter freer running in extreme cold which it was subjected to when used at high altitudes.
now on a Leica repair manual, I got the a word of caution:" the IIIf red dial models have 12, 1mm loose ball bearings in a race at the bottom of the curtain drum. when removing the bottom plate, these little bearings may fall out and are easily lost.
The black dial models have a washer in place of the ball bearings and do not present a problem"
now on a Leica repair manual, I got the a word of caution:" the IIIf red dial models have 12, 1mm loose ball bearings in a race at the bottom of the curtain drum. when removing the bottom plate, these little bearings may fall out and are easily lost.
The black dial models have a washer in place of the ball bearings and do not present a problem"
doubs43
Well-known
xayraa33 said:
That's interesting and not at all what I would expect. Possibly the use of ball bearings in the bottom of the curtain drum of the Red Dial is one way that the shutter was speeded up; i.e., lower friction.
My Red Dial was serviced by the factory at Wetzlar when I hand carried it there myself. It's as smooth as any Leica I've ever handled, closely followed by my IIIc.
One things for certain, my Black Dial works well and I'm not curious enough to look to see! LOL
Walker
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I have found the black dials to be more trouble free in the long haul, and the 50/50 rf mirror seems to have lasted better than the ones on the red dial, just my impression, from all the ones I have handled in camera shows and shops, and the from ones I own.
doubs43
Well-known
xayraa33 said:
I've owned two Black Dials. The first one I purchased in 1972 and also hand carried it to Wetzlar along with a IIIb in the Winter of 1972/73. I was fortunate that they still had one repairman who was qualified on the IIIb...... or at least that's what I was told. The Black Dial, even after service, had shutter bounce so I traded it or sold it.... don't recall for certain. I still have the IIIb complete with a matched syncronized flash base and flash gun by E. Leitz, NY. It came with a coated Summar lens that I'm not certain about as far as when it was coated or by whom. It has no markings to indicate military use so I think it's probably a post-war coating job.
I just recently obtained another Black Dial and it's hanging around my neck as I type this. So far it's worked very nicely. I have a RDST model that I'm going to send in for a CLA soon. The fast speeds (1/500 & 1/1000) don't expose the film as the second curtain doesn't delay properly. Below 1/500 it seems to work fine.
I'm considering using John Maddox for the CLA. Do you have any experience with him?
You mentioned a repair manual. I'd like to have a good Leica repair manual for reference but I want a printed one..... not a CD. Any recommendations?
Walker
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
the" Amateur Leica Repair " is half CD and half book, it is by Phil Nelson and although it is not perfect it is not that bad, he covers important things like 50/50 rf mirror replacement and curtain gear brake adjustment, curtain tension adjustments, escapment removal and cleaning, even making shutter curtains.the important stuff for 50 plus year old cameras
the" Leica Camera Repair Handbook " by Thomas Tomsey is not a good book, there is too little dedicated to the LTM bodies.
I never seen it, but the US Army Leica Repair Manual for the screwmounts is touted to be very good by some people. Eb*y is not a bad place to pick some of these up, they are not outragously expensive, and even if you do not ever intend to put a screwdriver to a Leica, the info you gain, will give you some idea of what is really involved in the repair of certain problems in these old gems.
the" Leica Camera Repair Handbook " by Thomas Tomsey is not a good book, there is too little dedicated to the LTM bodies.
I never seen it, but the US Army Leica Repair Manual for the screwmounts is touted to be very good by some people. Eb*y is not a bad place to pick some of these up, they are not outragously expensive, and even if you do not ever intend to put a screwdriver to a Leica, the info you gain, will give you some idea of what is really involved in the repair of certain problems in these old gems.
doubs43
Well-known
xayraa33 said:
Thanks. That's just the kind of information I'm looking for. I see the Tomosy book on ebay and somewhere I saw a chapter list with pages devoted to specific cameras. The amount given to the screwmount cameras was completely inadequate IMO so I had already crossed it off. The book/CD by Nelson seems a much better source.
Walker
K
kkcam
Guest
Well I have been reading these very postings for some time, and recall all the above replies. I decided to just pop some film into my IIIf RD and actually attach a common set of flashes (vivitar 2800, 283,285HV) in sequence to the camera to see for myself.
Shooting at 1/25 on "0" and 1/50 on "20" yielded quite similar exposure results, in fact virtually identical (100 ASA Fuji Realla). The diference was that, as careful as I tried to be, hand holding this set-up at 1/25 provided the occassional slightly out of focus image. You would have to look close at the pics to notice, but it is too slow for many situations, in my case.
Of course, there are other issues here. I do not know if a IIF RD will perform the same. Attach a flash , load film, take shots. My camera may be functioning differently from someone elses. I made no changes during the shoot (50 2.5 V/C, no filters). All shots on the same roll of film.
I am very interested in other results. Please contact me if you have additional information regarding flash on LTM cameras, especially IIIF RD models.
KK
Shooting at 1/25 on "0" and 1/50 on "20" yielded quite similar exposure results, in fact virtually identical (100 ASA Fuji Realla). The diference was that, as careful as I tried to be, hand holding this set-up at 1/25 provided the occassional slightly out of focus image. You would have to look close at the pics to notice, but it is too slow for many situations, in my case.
Of course, there are other issues here. I do not know if a IIF RD will perform the same. Attach a flash , load film, take shots. My camera may be functioning differently from someone elses. I made no changes during the shoot (50 2.5 V/C, no filters). All shots on the same roll of film.
I am very interested in other results. Please contact me if you have additional information regarding flash on LTM cameras, especially IIIF RD models.
KK
laptoprob
back to basics
Welcome KK and thanks for your test. As I may have stated, my IIf is waiting for leather and lugs to be operational, so my questioning is kinda preliminary.
My main objective was to figure out why the stated advance numbers are chosen that way.
Maybe it simply has to do with the triggering mechanism not being the curtain system itself but the rotating shutter speed dial. That would explain the strange advance numbers mentioned.
I can't think of a logic of the flash advance timing relative to the shutter curtains themselves.
Rob
My main objective was to figure out why the stated advance numbers are chosen that way.
Maybe it simply has to do with the triggering mechanism not being the curtain system itself but the rotating shutter speed dial. That would explain the strange advance numbers mentioned.
I can't think of a logic of the flash advance timing relative to the shutter curtains themselves.
Rob