aizan
Veteran
how much would it cost to convert an mp to an m-a? 🙂
Leica M-A Now the Best
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FrozenInTime
Well-known
It's been done : http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98652 ... before there even was a M-A
ian_watts
Ian Watts
It wouldn't but I don't think it is very likely to happen. Leica does a number of unpredictable things but I don't think selling a rebadged VC II is going to be one of them.🙂
coelacanth
Ride, dive, shoot.
Ha ha yep. I better come up with my next project.
JHP
Well-known
1. Remove battery.
...
That's it. Or, buy a black chrome M4-P and put some black tape on it.
Pioneer
Veteran
f16sunshine
Moderator
This may seem snarky but it's a sincere question.
Does anyone feel the slightly longer shutter button travel of the MP is an actual hinderance ?
I use an M5 where that motion has a fair bit more resistance and travel than the MP and it's hardly an item to give thought to.
Just curious if this is a real thing or splitting the thinnest of hairs.
Thanks
Does anyone feel the slightly longer shutter button travel of the MP is an actual hinderance ?
I use an M5 where that motion has a fair bit more resistance and travel than the MP and it's hardly an item to give thought to.
Just curious if this is a real thing or splitting the thinnest of hairs.
Thanks
hendriphile
Well-known
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten 
The speed dial has a slot in it to couple with a Leicameter. Remarkable. The last Leicameters were made in 1985, thirty years ago. Isn't it about time Leica offers a Leicameter again? A modern, digital lightmeter that couples to the speed dial would be a most welcome accessory for many users, also for users of the old meterless M Leicas.
Erik.
+1
I too love the last-generation MR-4 but it would be great to have an up-to-date functional design. It might not be manufactured by Leica; perhaps by Goertz-Metrawatt in Nuremberg as before, but I don't know if they're still in business.
The speed dial has a slot in it to couple with a Leicameter. Remarkable. The last Leicameters were made in 1985, thirty years ago. Isn't it about time Leica offers a Leicameter again? A modern, digital lightmeter that couples to the speed dial would be a most welcome accessory for many users, also for users of the old meterless M Leicas.
Erik.
+1
I too love the last-generation MR-4 but it would be great to have an up-to-date functional design. It might not be manufactured by Leica; perhaps by Goertz-Metrawatt in Nuremberg as before, but I don't know if they're still in business.
aizan
Veteran
nope. it's a matter of delectation, not functionality.
JHP
Well-known
What else is there? A notch in the shutter dial? For a light meter that an MP already has, so that is redundant. Is the viewfinder different to an MP's? What else is different? I thought the MA was more or less an MP without a meter, apart from subtle cosmetic differences. I have owned an M4-P, currently own an MP and M2.
EDIT - I may be wrong! I genuinely don't know.
Pioneer
Veteran
Though similar they are different cameras. There are functional differences and cosmetic differences. To try and make a big issue out of the lack of difference between the two cameras really makes no sense and I have difficulty trying to figure out why it is important. The truth is, there is probably more difference between the MP and the M-A than there are between the M-A and the M3.
To me what is actually important is that Leica now has a new M film camera for those who want exposure automation. They now have a new camera for those who would rather use an internal meter to determine their exposure and are comfortable with the electronics and battery needed to do that. Finally, we now have a new Leica film camera that has no electronics or metering at all for those who do not feel a need to have it.
Neither product is right nor is either product wrong. They are only options, and it is always nice to have options.
JHP
Well-known
I understand what you're saying. It is nice to have options and don't get me wrong the M-A is a lovely option! But I just am curious as to what the functional differences are between the MP and the M-A, apart from the lack of meter and the notch in the shutter dial (designed for a meter that Leica hasn't made for decades?). Does it have a new finder? I'm not saying either product are 'wrong', but I just wonder why anyone would buy an M-A when they can just remove the battery from an MP, and have virtually the same experience - or better yet, for even less money, buy an M4-P if they want lack of meter in a black chrome body with that lovely viewfinder. But as I said, if I am wrong and if there are more functional differences between the MP and M-A then the latter of course makes total sense.
🙂
It's not important at all 🙂
Still, I think some of us are genuinely curious to know more about "what's under the hood" of the M-A. Not in a "which one is better" kind of way, but more of a "what is this new kid on the block all about then, hey" kind of way (at least, that's how I see it).
Ian Watts filled us in on some of the differences between the MP and M-A (that I personally wasn't aware of), such as different frame line layout, shorter shutter release action, and different internal baffling. All these differences makes sense with the metering system no longer present in the M-A.
If we delve a bit deeper into the camera... what about the rangefinder, shutter, and film advance mechanisms? Did Leica make any changes there? Or do the MP and M-A share the same components? I'm curious as I don't remember reading anything about this anywhere.
My guess would be that its in Leica's interest for the MP and M-A to share as many parts as possible (reduced costs, ease of parts procurement, assembly, maintenance etc.), but I could be wrong.
JHP
Well-known
Great answer! Thanks! I wasn't aware of the different frame lines... very interesting. Do they share the more accurate lines of the M2 etc?
Pioneer
Veteran
Black chrome finish vs black paint. The viewfinder is different in that there is no provision for meter readouts which allows the brightline frame to fully go across the bottom. Obviously the appearance is different since there is no battery cover nor is there and white painted engraving on the top. The viewfinder front cover glass has no silver strip. The shutter button is single staging (not needing dual stage.) The film reminder on the rear door is metal, not plastic. There is the already mentioned notch in the shutter speed dial.
Why would anyone buy an M-A? That is rather an odd question. Why would I want to buy an MP? Why would I want to pay extra for my camera and then purposely disable it by removing the battery? Is that what you would want? Strange as it sounds to others, I actually prefer my Leica to be meterless, not incomplete because I neglected to put a battery in it.
This camera operates just like my M3, or an M4, yet I do not have to worry about the age related issues associated with those older cameras. Like your MP this camera is not used and it was never owned by anyone else. Unless I end up with Alzheimer's disease I will never wonder what my camera has seen because I will have been there with it. I have a warranty for the unexpected snafu. I will always know when it was last serviced, and who did it.
And thus you have my rationale. You will have to ask the others why they decided to buy one of their own.
Why would anyone buy an M-A? That is rather an odd question. Why would I want to buy an MP? Why would I want to pay extra for my camera and then purposely disable it by removing the battery? Is that what you would want? Strange as it sounds to others, I actually prefer my Leica to be meterless, not incomplete because I neglected to put a battery in it.
This camera operates just like my M3, or an M4, yet I do not have to worry about the age related issues associated with those older cameras. Like your MP this camera is not used and it was never owned by anyone else. Unless I end up with Alzheimer's disease I will never wonder what my camera has seen because I will have been there with it. I have a warranty for the unexpected snafu. I will always know when it was last serviced, and who did it.
And thus you have my rationale. You will have to ask the others why they decided to buy one of their own.
JHP
Well-known
Pioneer
Veteran
Thanks, you have put a slightly different spin on the question than I had considered.
For myself this camera was a no-brainer. I love my M3 but it has problems related to age. The M-A provided me with basically the same camera yet without the problems that come with 60 years of use, or 60 years of no use.
Pioneer
Veteran
Sorry for my grumpiness earlier. After conducting more research I believe that the differences between the MP and M-A, both functional and cosmetic, are primarily related to the fact that there is no meter in the M-A.
1. Viewfinder specs appear to be identical between both cameras in that the brightlines show a 23x35mm image in both cameras at closest focus and show between 9% and 23% more than is actually captured depending on the focal length. They both use a -0.5 diopter in the eyepiece. Both cameras use the 0.72 magnification ration. The MP can also be ordered with a 0.58 or 0.85 magnification. These two additional magnifications are not presently available on the M-A.
2. The viewfinder brightlines are more complete in the M-A because there are no metering LEDs across the bottom of the viewfinder.
3. The single stage shutter in the M-A is because there is no need to activate a meter with a dual stage shutter.
4. The notch in the shutter dial on the M-A would not make sense in the M-P.
5. The change in the film reminder dial on the rear door of the M-A is because there was no need to transfer ISO information to the non existent metering electronics.
6. No electronics so no need for a battery door.
7. Black chrome vs black paint is entirely a cosmetic variation with no relation to the lack of meter.
8. The almost complete blackout of the black chrome M-A is a cosmetic variation.
9. Both cameras are available in standard chrome finish.
10. Beyond the difference in internal baffling between the two cameras I am not aware of any other significant mechanical differences.
Conclusions - If you prefer in-camera metering then the MP is the preferred choice for you. If you prefer in camera metering with exposure automation then the M7 is the only choice. If you prefer meterless then the M-A is the reasonable option, or you can always remove your battery on the MP. This is not an available option with the M7 as the shutter is electronic. If you feel you may change your mind at some point then you are on your own. 🙂
1. Viewfinder specs appear to be identical between both cameras in that the brightlines show a 23x35mm image in both cameras at closest focus and show between 9% and 23% more than is actually captured depending on the focal length. They both use a -0.5 diopter in the eyepiece. Both cameras use the 0.72 magnification ration. The MP can also be ordered with a 0.58 or 0.85 magnification. These two additional magnifications are not presently available on the M-A.
2. The viewfinder brightlines are more complete in the M-A because there are no metering LEDs across the bottom of the viewfinder.
3. The single stage shutter in the M-A is because there is no need to activate a meter with a dual stage shutter.
4. The notch in the shutter dial on the M-A would not make sense in the M-P.
5. The change in the film reminder dial on the rear door of the M-A is because there was no need to transfer ISO information to the non existent metering electronics.
6. No electronics so no need for a battery door.
7. Black chrome vs black paint is entirely a cosmetic variation with no relation to the lack of meter.
8. The almost complete blackout of the black chrome M-A is a cosmetic variation.
9. Both cameras are available in standard chrome finish.
10. Beyond the difference in internal baffling between the two cameras I am not aware of any other significant mechanical differences.
Conclusions - If you prefer in-camera metering then the MP is the preferred choice for you. If you prefer in camera metering with exposure automation then the M7 is the only choice. If you prefer meterless then the M-A is the reasonable option, or you can always remove your battery on the MP. This is not an available option with the M7 as the shutter is electronic. If you feel you may change your mind at some point then you are on your own. 🙂
thegman
Veteran
If the Leica M-A is considered expensive, then I don't know what to think of iPhones, other smartphones, tablets etc. By comparison, iPhones are essentially disposable items, and therefore wildly expensive for something that is basically perishable.
I think it's easy to consider 'price' to be similar to 'value', but in reality, they're barely related in some ways. If an M-A can be considered 'expensive', how much would it need to cost to be considered 'reasonable'? Genuine question, would it need to be $1000 like top-end iPhone? Or would $2000 be OK, considering the build quality of a Leica vs. a phone (i.e. screws, as opposed to glue)?
I'm not saying iPhones are too expensive, I don't think that they are considering the use that people get out of them, and that Apple's software support for older model is very good. I just find it odd that Leica is sometimes singled out for their prices, which is odd considering the lifespan, and quality of their products.
I think it's easy to consider 'price' to be similar to 'value', but in reality, they're barely related in some ways. If an M-A can be considered 'expensive', how much would it need to cost to be considered 'reasonable'? Genuine question, would it need to be $1000 like top-end iPhone? Or would $2000 be OK, considering the build quality of a Leica vs. a phone (i.e. screws, as opposed to glue)?
I'm not saying iPhones are too expensive, I don't think that they are considering the use that people get out of them, and that Apple's software support for older model is very good. I just find it odd that Leica is sometimes singled out for their prices, which is odd considering the lifespan, and quality of their products.
ian_watts
Ian Watts
It is not a huge difference but I have found that after using an M-A largely exclusively since October that, if I use my MP, I find myself occasionally not pressing the shutter release far enough and have missed shots!😱 Once you get used to the shorter release of the M-A, the MP release does seem much longer, even if the reality is probably quite different. Muscle memory and all that I suppose.
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