Leica M for Street, Contemplating Options (Beginner)

SimonSawSunlight said:
:eek: the advantage of shooting meterless is that you can really set the exposure for what you see and want, without having to rely on some electronic device's average value calculations.
but as I said, I do use the meter in my Mamiya 6, which is due to several things, one of them being the fact that I can be very lazy. :D but I'm slower with it most of the time, because it always tempts me to check or double-check the meter readings. I am sure other people are very fast with their metered cameras!
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Completely agree. When using my mechanical film cameras I never use the meter, even for slides. Its easy enough to get the hang of after a while.

If I am feeling lazy I use the DSLR.
 
I have an MP and just bought an R4A. Wanted to use a 21mm without a finder and wanted something to make street shooting quicker. I've lost some shots trying to find the right shutter speed or aperture to get what I wanted and eliminating one of those (shutter speed in the case of the R4A) is very nice.
Invest in some glass, even good used glass and play with the cheaper, but very usable body until you can afford to upgrade. At which time, you might not find it necessary at all!
 
Hi FB,

I looked at your flickr stream, some very good stuff there.

Buy a used M2 for around US 500, have it serviced by Youxin or Sherry. It will cost not much more than a new R4, it will take a couple of weeks longer until you can use it, but it will be very rewarding for you, I think.

Roland.
 
If the 28 is going to be your main lens to start with. Go for a R4 (M or at your preference). It has a very good frame set up for 28. The meter is good, but you will soon find your own "speed" and disregard it anyway.
Later, if you decide to add a body - you can always satisfy your Leica Lust with a used M2/M3 or M4P (which has the 28 frame in it - though barely visible) and keep the R4 as a back up or for a 21.
"Street" shooting is not an exact science. If you start fiddling with aperture, speed and precise framing - the shot is lost!!!!! You are better off having a bit of leeway as to framing - things can be cropped out if needed.
The R4 series camera's are Milestone cameras in my estimation. No external finders - good finder all the way down to 21mm - and I even use it with the 18mm - as a "what you see is what you get" type of finder.
With street shooting (whatever that is?) - you need to be able to react "NOW" by prefocusing and setting speeds/aperture ahead of time - by the time your camera reaches your eye - it should at the most require a slight tweak of focus before you fire it.
 
Tom is wise and always gives good advice.

I use a 28 on my M4-P and am quite comfortable with it, FWIW.
 
maddoc said:
Leica M are cool and hip (I had all of them, some models more than once) but expensive. Unfortunately, I have not seen any single used Leica M (especially the older models) that worked 100% perfect, all of them had the one or other mechanical problem.
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Come on man... this is such an over-statement. At least be fair with your disses.
 
I've bought three M's (M6, M4, M3) in the last 18 months and have not had a problem with any of them. The M6 came from a private local sale, with the M4 and M3 coming from the 'bay.

Like most things in life, ensure you buy well and you will not have a problem. If you want added security, buy from a dealer who offers a warranty.

Or just buy a Bessa R. An R3 and R4 would be quite complimentary, and a pair of great shooters too.
 
I would also note that I find my Rollei 35T a great street shooter also, and for me, easily the equivalent of my M4 and 35mm for fast paced street shooting.
 
mfogiel said:
...I would absolutely opt for the R4A, as AE is vital for fast street photography.
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Leica M6, 35/2.8 Biogon-C, ACROS, XTOL 1:1. No AE here.

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I don't doubt that AE can be a useful tool (or, if you're a hardliner, maybe a helpful crutch), but it's hardly "vital."

With a manual camera, you just adjust exposure on-the-fly as you walk down the street. Sunny-11, open 2-3 stops more for shade. Meter once in awhile to verify that your exposure is not drifting too much. And my way is the wimp's way. I know really good street photographers who never carry a meter at all. When I shot street with a Nikon FE2 it was usually in manual, even though the FE2 has a very good AE mode.

Good exposure guides here and here.

I miss focus a *lot* more often than I miss exposure.

Edited to add: I'm shooting with my old Nikkormat FT2 today (excavated from a closet at my mom's house), and there's no battery in it. I haven't once bothered to pull the M6 out of the bag to check exposure; It'll be fine.
 
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Gear decisions are quite personal and, early on, a conundrum. Easy to overthink initially because to make the best purchase decision you need experience, but you can't get the experience without having owned some gear.

Your style will evolve, so it's best to dive in with something that appeals to you and then shoot as much as you can. Your real needs will become apparent and then you can buy/sell to refine your kit.
 
MCTuomey said:
Gear decisions are quite personal and, early on, a conundrum. Easy to overthink initially because to make the best purchase decision you need experience, but you can't get the experience without having owned some gear.

Your style will evolve, so it's best to dive in with something that appeals to you and then shoot as much as you can. Your real needs will become apparent and then you can buy/sell to refine your kit.
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Good advice. Whatever you get, shoot 20 rolls or so before you decide what you really think about it.
 
semilog said:
Leica M6, 35/2.8 Biogon-C, ACROS, XTOL 1:1. No AE here.

I don't doubt that AE can be a useful tool (or, if you're a hardliner, maybe a helpful crutch), but it's hardly "vital."

With a manual camera, you just adjust exposure on-the-fly as you walk down the street. Sunny-11, open 2-3 stops more for shade. Meter once in awhile to verify that your exposure is not drifting too much. And my way is the wimp's way. I know really good street photographers who never carry a meter at all. When I shot street with a Nikon FE2 it was usually in manual, even though the FE2 has a very good AE mode.

I miss focus a *lot* more often than I miss exposure.
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Exactly, If it were 'vital', how did HCB and Willy Ronis survive without it?

If you don't model yourself on the best, on whom do you model yourself?

Cheers,

R.
 
Hi Mike! I just saw this thread. FWIW, I use a 28 on my M2, using the entire vf to frame. Works fine. The M2 came from KEH a couple of years ago, and did not cost much over $500 (for BGN grade). It did not "need" a CLA, although I had it CLA'd earlier this year by Youxin Ye when he replaced the covering. It's silky smooth in operation now. Money well spent, IMO. BTW, you can use a 28 w/ the entire vf on a Bessa R and R2* too.

OK, that said, looking at your kit as a whole, if you're going the 28 route, the R4* makes sense. W/ your IIIf, you'll have an excellent street shooting kit: IIIf w/ a 50; R4* w/ a 28. The R4 framelines for 28 are perfect, IMO.
 
Bingley said:
OK, that said, looking at your kit as a whole, if you're going the 28 route, the R4* makes sense. W/ your IIIf, you'll have an excellent street shooting kit: IIIf w/ a 50; R4* w/ a 28. The R4 framelines for 28 are perfect, IMO.
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Very sensible. An M is certainly less sensible but boy do I ever love shooting with 'em.

Leicas, Nikons, Canons, Hexars, and Bessas are all great RF's, and each has its own strengths and weaknesses. A good photographer will make any of them work, and any of them can be used to become a good photographer.
 
Buy a camera....Bessa is fine, Leica M is great but I would not say better just nicer.

Go shoot a lot for a while then decide what you like/dont like.
 
Another note:

I wear glases....you will get used to the VF you have and the lenses you use; really you will! I have no issue with my 28 elmart on my .85 M6. Not "perfect" according to many but it works fine and it is what I have and like to use.

In other words get what you can and use it :)
 
Thanks for the advice all. After much deliberation and reading all the comments I pulled the trigger on an M2 (lever rewind, chrome) and a color skopar. The M2 is coming from Camera West in Rancho Mirage. I decided to go a little longer than the 28mm lens I originally intended to use.
 
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