Leica M11 Information

[Benjamin Marks]

Here are a couple of examples of the IR response of the M9. 35 mm Summaron lens with a visual light cut filter on the front. Hyperfocal focus, tripod, and exposure set to "Auto." I then tweaked the files in Photoshop to remove the magenta color and adjust the exposure a bit:





I mainly insert these to demonstrate that even post M8 models do have a usable IR response with the factory CCD intact. I'd love to have an M10 or M11 for a side-by-sde test.


Ironically, I own the filter/lens combination because I wanted to explore the IR response of the M8, which was this camera's predecessor in my cabinet. I definitely got my share of off-color hair with the M8 under incandescent lights when photographing women of a certain age (e.g. who use hair dye). The M9 does better, but still (as showed above) registers plenty of signal from the IR spectrum.

 

[Calzone]

https://heliopan.com/products/digital-filter?variant=12657463951423

Thanks for doing this. I'm known and promote myself as a Lazy-Slacker. LOL.

Currently I'm retired...

Cal

 

[willie_901]

The choices they’ve made are interesting. If they’d simply used pixel binning to combine a 2x2 arrays they would have had a full colour 15 Mp image. Comparable to a 15Mp Bayer output as the Pentax K1 multi shot is to single frame. So better signal to noise in luminance and full colour resolution. However, I’ve not worked through the process to go from 60Mp to 36 and then on to 18.

In general, I’d expect that the lower photo site count images should have improved quality over a bayer image of the same size. Otoh, I suspect that (even if I were to buy one in the end) I wouldn’t worry to much and may never use it…

Now, back to the M4😉

Your can't kill sharpness that never existed.

If the lens MTF50 is less than the sensor assembly MTF50, you are using multiple pixels for the same information.

The same goes for the scene being photographed. For example, suppose it's summer and you are in a hot, humid climate. Two factors beyond your control degrade image detail. One is light scattering due to dust and humidity. The other is atmospheric temperature gradients which produce blurry images. The scene itself - a foggy sea scape - offers no details for 60 MP to resolve.

 

[anerjee]

I've been happy with my M240 for the last 7+ years, but I've had a flutter of the heart a couple of times when I handled the M10 - for a 28mm shooter, the M10 is a much nicer shooting experience

The M11 looks fantastic, and I do hope this adds a few more M10 in the used market. Are there any other practical benefits of the M11 compared to the M10, for someone who is not interested in > 24M pixels?

 

[Bill Blackwell]

... Are there any other practical benefits of the M11 compared to the M10, for someone who is not interested in > 24M pixels?

The menu and bottom battery loading systems (no more removable bottom plate) are nearly identical to that of the SL2 and Q2. The M11 has the ability to use (downgrade to) 18, 32, or 60 megapixels and it has both electronic (to 1/16000) and mechanical (to 1/4000) shutter options (and there is a "hybrid" option). The fact is that there are enough workarounds to get the benefits of 60 megapixels over the fact there is no IBIS. IMHO, if you have any prior digital M there are enough improvements in the M11 over any M10 variant - including the M10-R - that it is worth upgrading to the M11 - if you're looking for more pixels.

However, on the whole - if you feel 24 megapixels is sufficient - I would say no.

 

[boojum]

The menu and bottom battery loading systems (no more removable bottom plate) are nearly identical to that of the SL2 and Q2. The M11 has the ability to use (downgrade to) 18, 32, or 60 megapixels and it has both electronic (to 1/16000) and mechanical (to 1/4000) shutter options (and there is a "hybrid" option). The fact is that there are enough workarounds to get the benefits of 60 megapixels over the fact there is no IBIS. IMHO, if you have any prior digital M there are enough improvements in the M11 over any M10 variant - including the M10-R - that it is worth upgrading to the M11 - if you're looking for more pixels.

However, on the whole - if you feel 24 megapixels is sufficient - I would say no.

Agreed. I am working an M8.2, M9 and a couple of M240's. They yield images I like. But a lousy shot is a lousy shot regardless of the image capture. Pixel density, color vibrancy, gentle hues, all of that mean nothing if the shot is crap. So that means I can easily stick with what I have, After all, a lot of famous and gifted photographers have done marvelous work with these models. When my skills outgrow these cameras I will buy the current Leica RF model. Don't hold your breath, though. I have a long, long way to go.

 

[boojum]

I use the Light Bar of the Wii for a good IR source. You can also use a remote control for a TV or other device.

You are not communicating the the brightest bear in the woods. Try to keep that in mind. ;o) I have a light bar, a Genaray SL-57 (https://www.genaray.com/product/11983/Genaray-SL_57-Dimmable-LED-On_Camera-Light), which may work. It is at 5600K, daylight. Let me know and I can crank this test out. And thanks for the help.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The LED in a typical remote control for a TV, DVR, etc- is a good IR only source. A camera light is going to be mostly visible. SO- your eye cannot see the light from the TV remote control, but a camera with some IR leakage can. Try the M240 on Liveview and watch the face of the remote control as you push buttons. The Wii light bar- is constantly on, so is a good test. The Wii remote control uses a camera to watch the orientation of the IR LEDs in the light bar. We have one, a good test.

 

[boojum]

The LED in a typical remote control for a TV, DVR, etc- is a good IR only source. A camera light is going to be mostly visible. SO- your eye cannot see the light from the TV remote control, but a camera with some IR leakage can. Try the M240 on Liveview and watch the face of the remote control as you push buttons. The Wii light bar- is constantly on, so is a good test. The Wii remote control uses a camera to watch the orientation of the IR LEDs in the light bar. We have one, a good test.

OK. if I can get a good IR signal from the clicker squirt it at something and take a photo. That beats standing in the pissing down rain or even huddling in the doorway and hoping for the best on a grey day. I am guessing a light colored wall would be very good to squirt the clicker at.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Meanwhile six M11 owners already reported faulty camera controls. One came to the store and NIB M11 was exactly with same problem.
LCAG is consistent on its legendary quality with M11.

 

[boojum]

Meanwhile six M11 owners already reported faulty camera controls. One came to the store and NIB M11 was exactly with same problem.
LCAG is consistent on its legendary quality with M11.

Off to another great start with a new camera. These are the results I can expect from a project run by MBA's, cost accountants and marketing types. This is not what I expect from engineers and technicians. The M8, the M9, I do not know about the M240 or M10, and now the M11. Which one of those guys at LCAG is Curly?

I think I will stand pat with what I have. It seems too much to expect Leica to field a working camera, even for $9,000. Two M11 = an econobox. At least the econobox will work. Ridiculously overpriced and underperforming. They can make a good camera. They are not motivated. I do not think they have any strong interest in the camera line. If they do they are keeping it a secret.

 

[Archiver]

Agreed. I am working an M8.2, M9 and a couple of M240's. They yield images I like. But a lousy shot is a lousy shot regardless of the image capture. Pixel density, color vibrancy, gentle hues, all of that mean nothing if the shot is crap. So that means I can easily stick with what I have, After all, a lot of famous and gifted photographers have done marvelous work with these models. When my skills outgrow these cameras I will buy the current Leica RF model. Don't hold your breath, though. I have a long, long way to go.

As much as I'd like a M11, particularly since it purportedly has M9 colours, I remind myself that I already HAVE a M9 already and love its output. I'd be paying AUD $13,500 for a greatly upgraded M9, basically.

 

[jsrockit]

Meanwhile six M11 owners already reported faulty camera controls. One came to the store and NIB M11 was exactly with same problem.
LCAG is consistent on its legendary quality with M11.

Huh? Source?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/328466-function-buttons-not-working-correctly-on-new-m11/

Sounds like a firmware problem. On the M9 and M Monochrom, timing problems exist when using the shutter in discrete mode, about 1/5 to 1/10 times the shutter does not charge after taking a picture until the buffer flushes. I believe it is a timing issue related to the release of the shutter button. If the camera is busy doing something else, it fails to poll the release. Would be nice to have the source code. Now- I have to go hunt down a firmware problem on a new system.