leica M2 and M3 advance lever smoothness?

[newfilm]

Hello guys,

for those that own this two camera, does the advance lever smoothness is same for this both (assumed both is single stroke style)? Many thanks for any insight.

note: i moved one my my comment bellow to up here for easier to read:
So, I crumbled, and bough myself a leica M2 body (promise the wife this will be last camera I buy, this year

There is a few things I've notice, so am putting it here seeking the collective wisdom is any of this is normal (for a leica), also maybe I've been reading too many leica post and have a little too high of expectation:

0. Did a quick roll, shutter speed is fine, no light leak, rangefinder spot is LOVELY, the pink tint is .... pleasing... some how. Flash sync is in a weird place, I would though having the socket in front of the camera have more sense (I'm a left eye user), the film winding is, um, a bit harder to get out (ergonomically) because there is very small space between the lever and shutter selection dial when it is "parking" position.

1. the film advance, swing out wind-on (smooth), and end with a big "clunk" when the shutter is cocked(?), feels like breaking a deep fry chicken wing. Not exactly what was mention a "silky smooth" experience (or was that M3)? In comparison, my Canon VL advance the film and cocked the shutter in smoothness that I could actually say buttery smooth.

2. when the film advance lever is "parked" its tooth lock with the jagged tooth on the shutter speed dial, so rotating the dial is no no, that it suppose to work?

3. the shutter speed dial, is easier to grab and rotate with finger and thumb rather than rotate with just index finger? (that amount of resistant is normal too?)

4. when shutter is released, on high speed 1/125++, I can definitely feel a slapping force that knock the camera a little, is that normal, it is a focal plane shutter after all. (I can feel the similar thing in my Zorki as well

5. the 35mm frame line is a little hard to see with my glasses on, that bit seems to be universal for every one

Sorry for the huge wall of text, I'm trying to get a feel of what is "normal" for a leica.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Yes, the construction is the same, but not two feel the same.

Erik.

 

[BLKRCAT]

true. No two leicas feel exactly the same.

My M4 is actually smoother than the M2 when I had it.

 

[newfilm]

no two leica feels the same.... hm... interesting...

 

[Pablito]

The smoother the wind, the better the pictures.

 

[newfilm]

Impression of my first leica

Impression of my first leica

So, I crumbled, and bough myself a leica M2 body (promise the wife this will be last camera I buy, this year🙂

There is a few things I've notice, so am putting it here seeking the collective wisdom is any of this is normal (for a leica), also maybe I've been reading too many leica post and have a little too high of expectation:

0. Did a quick roll, shutter speed is fine, no light leak, rangefinder spot is LOVELY, the pink tint is .... pleasing... some how. Flash sync is in a weird place, I would though having the socket in front of the camera have more sense (I'm a left eye user), the film winding is, um, a bit harder to get out (ergonomically) because there is very small space between the lever and shutter selection dial when it is "parking" position.

1. the film advance, swing out wind-on (smooth), and end with a big "clunk" when the shutter is cocked(?), feels like breaking a deep fry chicken wing. Not exactly what was mention a "silky smooth" experience (or was that M3)? In comparison, my Canon VL advance the film and cocked the shutter in smoothness that I could actually say buttery smooth.

2. when the film advance lever is "parked" its tooth lock with the jagged tooth on the shutter speed dial, so rotating the dial is no no, that it suppose to work?

3. the shutter speed dial, is easier to grab and rotate with finger and thumb rather than rotate with just index finger? (that amount of resistant is normal too?)

4. when shutter is released, on high speed 1/125++, I can definitely feel a slapping force that knock the camera a little, is that normal, it is a focal plane shutter after all. (I can feel the similar thing in my Zorki as well 🙂

5. the 35mm frame line is a little hard to see with my glasses on, that bit seems to be universal for every one 🙂

Sorry for the huge wall of text, I'm trying to get a feel of what is "normal" for a leica. 🙂

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

Is this what the top of your M2 looks like? Some of the things you're describing with the advance lever and shutter dial sound a bit odd - like everything isn't exactly where it's suppose to be...

...the film winding is, um, a bit harder to get out (ergonomically) because there is very small space between the lever and shutter selection dial when it is "parking" position.

As above, this sounds a bit odd...

1. the film advance, swing out wind-on (smooth), and end with a big "clunk" when the shutter is cocked(?), feels like breaking a deep fry chicken wing. Not exactly what was mention a "silky smooth" experience (or was that M3)? In comparison, my Canon VL advance the film and cocked the shutter in smoothness that I could actually say buttery smooth.

There is a noticeable catch at the end of the throw, but I'd still describe the motion of mine as very smooth (compared to Pentax Spotmatic, MX and LX and Minolta SRT101)

2. when the film advance lever is "parked" its tooth lock with the jagged tooth on the shutter speed dial, so rotating the dial is no no, that it suppose to work?

Odd. Mine rotates freely with the lever parked.

3. the shutter speed dial, is easier to grab and rotate with finger and thumb rather than rotate with just index finger? (that amount of resistant is normal too?)

Yep...

4. when shutter is released, on high speed 1/125++, I can definitely feel a slapping force that knock the camera a little, is that normal, it is a focal plane shutter after all. (I can feel the similar thing in my Zorki as well 🙂

On mine everything above 1/30 is a sharp 'snick'. I definitely wouldn't describe it as a 'slapping force'.

5. the 35mm frame line is a little hard to see with my glasses on, that bit seems to be universal for every one 🙂

Yep, normal. I don't wear glasses and it's still a touch difficult to see at times.

 

[newfilm]

Is this what the top of your M2 looks like? Some of the things you're describing with the advance lever and shutter dial sound a bit odd - like everything isn't exactly where it's suppose to be..

Yes, exactly looking like that, maybe is just my fat finger I cannot decide if I should ply it out from the "triangular" region or to dig it out by logging my nail into the toothed end of the lever.

My experience with other lever film advance is I "cut" the lever out from "parking" with my thumb from top to bottom while holding a camera, but in M2 the accessory shoe and the parked lever and the dial just formed a very closed "triangular" area that (again my own opinion) that making that action a little more difficult, and of course the lever din't have enough hight that my thumb can get hold on while parking (not bashing, just my personal experience).

Come to think of it, these famous camera seems to have some quirk of their own in the ergonomic department, the Contax has this "contax-grip" and people been putting up with it just fine 🙂

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

The base of the shutter speed dial is wider than the knurled part and so the film advance lever should not or does not touch it enough to "lock" them.

The gap is rather small, though...

Regards, David

 

[Roger Hicks]

By now, sample variation is likely to be MUCH greater than model variation.

Yes, I always found M3s to be smoother on average -- but not all cameras are average...

Cheers,

R.

 

[Robert Lai]

Oh come now, is this really the last camera for the year?
Your wife may believe you for now, but how will you explain the M3 in a few months?

Some cameras do have the winding lever contact the shutter dial. I don't think they are supposed to do that, but an M3 that I sent for service arrived in that condition.

Yes, it is annoying to have to dig the winding lever out of the stored position. It is even harder if you have an MR meter on the camera. The later cameras (M4 onwards), had a hinged wind lever which allows you to leave the wind lever out slightly in a standoff position when shooting.

The camera's shutter speed dial detents can vary. Some exhibit almost no resistance. I just had Don Goldberg "lighten up" the resistance of an M4-2 shutter speed dial which was very stiff to turn due to high resistance on the detents.

BTW, you can set intermediate shutter speeds on you shutter, except between 1/8 and 1/15, and 1/30 to 1/50.

There is a slight "catch" at the end of winding. It happens with many cameras, my Nikon F3 included.

 

[David Hughes]

By now, sample variation is likely to be MUCH greater than model variation.

Yes, I always found M3s to be smoother on average -- but not all cameras are average...

Cheers,

R.

Hi,

Don't you mean, no Leica M is average?

Regards, David

 

[mcfingon]

With the M3 and M2 that I have, the wind lever "standoff" position is stronger on the M3, so it makes it easier to wind and shoot without the film advance lever going all the way back towards the shutter speed dial. And the speed dial is easier to move on the M3 than the M2. The shutter also seems a little quieter on the M3. I don't know if this true of all M2's and M3's, but this is how mine behave. They both have their Leica seal intact, so may not have had a top-off service since being made in 1959 (M2) and 1961 (M3).

 

[giganova]

Don't you mean, no Leica M is average?

It's like at school where every kid is above average. 😀

 

[mcfingon]

Comparing the Canon L2 I have with either of the Leicas, the film wind is shorter and heavier-feeling, and doesn't have the feel of a distinct ending of the wind like the M3 or M2. I prefer the M2/M3's lighter lever feel. And I just checked, the M2's wind lever can just touch the knurling of the shutter speed dial when parked but the M3's can't. I don't know if this is wear or design.

 

[Fjäll]

I felt underwhelmed when I first got my Leica after all I've read about it. But after about a year of shooting I swear by the Leica experience. It's such a no frills experience. My film advance lever got really smooth after about 50 rolls. It's insanely smooth now.

Leica M4-P

 

[Roger Hicks]

I felt underwhelmed when I first got my Leica after all I've read about it. But after about a year of shooting I swear by the Leica experience. It's such a no frills experience. My film advance lever got really smooth after about 50 rolls. It's insanely smooth now.

Leica M4-P

Another good point. They thrive on use. Sample variation again.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Tom A]

The "smoothness" of the advance depends more on how many rolls have gone through the camera. Like any mechanical object - parts "wear in". The M2 has the long take up shaft and that adds a bit of "mass" to it. Just keep shooting and it will smooth out.
The "clunk" at the end of the advance can be adjusted - or it will vanish with use. It is just the shutter brake that needs to be re-set.
The wind lever/shutter speed dial serves as a history lesson for the camera. The lever will dent the dial and you can judge usage from that. Beware of camera that have large dents when the dial is set to B or 1 sec as the body probably has been used on a copy stand or microscope - with massive amount of exposures accumulated.
As for holding the camera - I always tuck my thumb under the lever - it serves as a steady rest as well as a quick advance. I do it even when using bottom trigger winders!
The 35mm frame and glasses is a tight fit - but you will soon learn how to "sweep" across the field and see whats in it - to simply let the edges take care of themselves.

 

[Dwig]

Actually, for this discussion there isn't an "M3", but instead there is an "M3 Single Stroke" and an "M3 Double Stroke". Wind smoothness is quite different between the two. If you really really want super smooth you should use an M3/DS.

Also, with all 35mm cameras some portion of the rewind knob assembly, often all of it, turns during wind. Any wear or dirty in the rewind shaft's bushing can significantly influence the tension and smoothness of the wind when actually shooting film.

 

[jsrockit]

How come people only ask about rewind smoothness with regard to Leicas?