Leica M2 CLA questions

O

olliewtf

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Hey all!

picked up a nice M2 button rewind and lens for a steal. It's clearly not been used in a while, with a stiff advance lever and hanging slow speeds plus capping fast speeds. My thinking is it requires a basic cla which should hopefully sort the shutter issues without the need to adjust the timings. Luckily the finder is perfect as are the curtains.

Im all tooled up ready to strip it. Having read a few of the online repair guides, a few questions -

Does removing the rangefinder assembly cause the assembly to "uncalibrate"? is it possible to remove it and mark settings in order to reinstate it as it was?

My aim is to strip as much as i need to in order to clean and lubricate necessary parts - however it would be great if I can do this without needing to adjust all the settings from scratch. Can anyone run through which mechanisms need removing that would then require adjustment on assembly?

the brake assembly; if i loosen it in order to flush clean it, does this knock the brake adjustments?

Im following this, walts post - teh first answer to the OP and also using the pentax guide and another repair guide: https://www.photo.net/discuss/threa...rJYIGUOG3jhMT2ddHAUMc8OCgx1P4Gj5MqbXRiOzclHx4

Im particularly keen on his sentiments regarding a thorough cleaning and that it will most likely lead to no necessary adjustments; though now im aware that in order to carry out a sufficient CL, A might be necessary.

I am an amateur, though I do have some experience repairing barnacks. this is a rather more complicated animal but i have a strong desire to learn how to fix it. Any input is greatly appreciated!
 
haha indeed, but this particular camera is past just having a few shots fired to warm it up again. In fact, I fear use in its current state would actually damage it. The advance lever is VERY stiff, like it feels like its about to break stiff. also the curtains are not even separating at 1/1000 and the 1str curtain hangs at all slow speeds. It needs lubricating asap basically! However, I do hold out alot of hope that once cleaned and lubed it wont likely need any change of tension on the curtains.
 
SlappyPeterson said:
Just my 2 quick worthless cents on the matter.

This is worth the few minutes to read before you decide to do anything:

http://leicaphilia.com/the-myth-of-the-necessary-leica-cla/
Click to expand...
Cameras with dried lubricants will NOT magically start working if you exercise the shutter. They need repaired. Even if firing the shutter a bunch of times before use makes it seem to be working, the dried lubricants cause the mechanism to wear out more quickly.

The original poster needs to have his camera serviced. A CLA is EXACTLY what it needs.
 
When organic lubricants dry up and polymerize, they are no longer lubricants. What they do is attract dirt and become polishing compounds or worse. This is why Leicas need regular servicing because the 12 individual lubricants within the camera all have different lubricity as well as different stability. The temperature and humidity affect this as well. So a person could set the camera in the sun and get that wax which used to be grease, warmed up enough to appear to allow the camera to function correctly, but it will lock up as soon as it is taken out on a cool day. In the meantime, all that brass in there is grinding away on itself.
Phil Forrest
 
To put this to bed, and to get back to the original post, the author of that blog literally said in his post that hanging slow speeds is a legit reason to get a CLA.

"The bottom line is this: given the operating tolerances of finely tuned mechanical Leicas, its better not to open up a sophisticated device like a Leica film camera without a legitimate reason to do so. “Legitimate reasons” might include hanging slow speeds, or stuck shutter, or a dim viewfinder. But, absent these, you’re throwing away your money while subjecting your camera to potential harm."

I posted that blog as a reminder to folks that a CLA is not always warranted. As the blog pointed out, in this case it is. But, as we are on the internet, I have to be reminded that people jump to assumptions in nanoseconds, nuances are not perceived, and people don't really read things before posting a response. I should not have posted the link to that blog in this specific thread. My bad.

Back to the original poster's question.
 
SlappyPeterson said:
To put this to bed, and to get back to the original post, the author of that blog literally said in his post that hanging slow speeds is a legit reason to get a CLA.

"The bottom line is this: given the operating tolerances of finely tuned mechanical Leicas, its better not to open up a sophisticated device like a Leica film camera without a legitimate reason to do so. “Legitimate reasons” might include hanging slow speeds, or stuck shutter, or a dim viewfinder. But, absent these, you’re throwing away your money while subjecting your camera to potential harm."

I posted that blog as a reminder to folks that a CLA is not always warranted. As the blog pointed out, in this case it is. But, as we are on the internet, I have to be reminded that people jump to assumptions in nanoseconds, nuances are not perceived, and people don't really read things before posting a response. I should not have posted the link to that blog in this specific thread. My bad.

Back to the original poster's question.
Click to expand...
Your post was irrelevant to the original poster's question. Several of us have pointed out that it was bad advice.
 
This is all very nice but...

I actually agree somewhat with the hang-ups around CLAs. But they are also totally necessary; just not always! lol. to be honest what i found worse was someone once telling me the camera deserved to be sent to a specialist. The camera deserves nothing, it's literally never done anything for me. Anyway, I've always been one to learn and carry out my own work - it's the mistakes that help you get better, so please dont jump at me if I ask a silly question or two!

many thanks all.
 
olliewtf said:
This is all very nice but...

The camera deserves nothing, it's literally never done anything for me.
Click to expand...

Hmm. The camera may never have done anything for you; but reason dictates that this particular fact has no bearing on what the camera itself deserves.
 
olliewtf said:
Hey all!

picked up a nice M2 button rewind and lens for a steal. It's clearly not been used in a while, with a stiff advance lever and hanging slow speeds plus capping fast speeds. My thinking is it requires a basic cla which should hopefully sort the shutter issues without the need to adjust the timings. Luckily the finder is perfect as are the curtains.

Im all tooled up ready to strip it. Having read a few of the online repair guides, a few questions -

Does removing the rangefinder assembly cause the assembly to "uncalibrate"? is it possible to remove it and mark settings in order to reinstate it as it was?

My aim is to strip as much as i need to in order to clean and lubricate necessary parts - however it would be great if I can do this without needing to adjust all the settings from scratch. Can anyone run through which mechanisms need removing that would then require adjustment on assembly?

the brake assembly; if i loosen it in order to flush clean it, does this knock the brake adjustments?

Im following this, walts post - teh first answer to the OP and also using the pentax guide and another repair guide: https://www.photo.net/discuss/threa...rJYIGUOG3jhMT2ddHAUMc8OCgx1P4Gj5MqbXRiOzclHx4

Im particularly keen on his sentiments regarding a thorough cleaning and that it will most likely lead to no necessary adjustments; though now im aware that in order to carry out a sufficient CL, A might be necessary.

I am an amateur, though I do have some experience repairing barnacks. this is a rather more complicated animal but i have a strong desire to learn how to fix it. Any input is greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...

Having been in your position I think you should go for it. Take care during dissasembly not to make marks, use the right tool and just take your time. Take notes and pictures they are helpful later.

The shutter brake is easy to adjust, I have not tried the avance mechanisms. The slow speed probably only needs cleaning, but the fast speeds may need adjusting. An optical shutter speed tester is needed or use a digital camera. You may need to take the shutter roller out to clean the bearings. Use good oil and grease. I use Dr. Tillwich watch oil for slow speed escapement and clock oil for larger parts. I used the US Army manual as reference.

My M2 is running like a charm, also in cold weather after My diy cla, so with care you can do it too :)
 
I’ve had rangefinder issues after professional service. Fortunately I was able to adjust it myself. One magical service of my M2 in 2007 by a Wetzlar born and trained technician has it cooing sweetly since. No-one has told you you’re mad. I enjoyed the linked caveat which was nicely done. But a good service prolongs the life of the camera. When I went skiing last that recently serviced M2 was the Leica I took with me because I figured it would be the best able to work in the cold.
 
:) "Interesting" how one reads OP where it is saying "stiff advance level" and still recommends to exercise it two hundred times. :)

I had my stiff film advance in M4-2. It didn't came as result of been unused. It became stiff as I used it. Part was needed, not just CLA.
But who knows:
https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/m4-stiff-rewind.412283/

For the rest of OP questions the answers are here:

http://www.pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica%20basic%20repair.pdf

http://www.pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica_m2_service.pdf
 
Guys thanks again for all your input.
Re the lever - it's the advance not the rewind that is stiff. As the advance moves so many different parts, it is quite likely that all the lubricated parts, now sludgly and dry, are compounded to create the effect. A strip will tell anyhow.

Thanks also for letting me know that the brake and rangefinder arent the worst job to re adjust; that gives me enough confidence to persevere.

Can anyone confirm if there is anything I can prep for to make these re adjustments easier? The pentax manual mentions marking the adjustment screws for example, though does so rather briefly.

Stand by everyone I'm sure as I take it apart things will become clearer and at the same time more complicated and I will lean on you all for help!

Many thanks
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
... Cameras with dried lubricants will NOT magically start working if you exercise the shutter. ... The original poster needs to have his camera serviced. A CLA is EXACTLY what it needs.
Click to expand...
There might be a gentler way of putting it, but I 100% agree. And attempting your own CLA from YouTube videos is just as unwise. Over-lubricating, for example, could damage the camera beyond the need for a CLA.

My advice: Bite the bullet and have it done right by a trained professional (DAG Camera Repair and TLC Camera Repair are good choices). A proper CLA could last 20-years or more.
 
Don't know your mechanical abilities but there is no way I would attempt a CLA on a Leica film camera by watching "youtube" videos. If one small spring or other part gets away from you, you are up the creek without a paddle.

If you are willing to own a Leica, spend a few hundred on a CLA by Sherry, DAG or YeYe. It is a part of the cost of ownership and then you won't have to worry for another 20 years.
 
I agree with the other folks who say don't attempt to CLA it yourself. I've sent a few cameras to Don Goldberg (he lives very close to me here in Wisconsin), and he does a really good job. I sent him an M5 and an M3 a couple years ago and he got them all cleaned up and back to me very fast. I will say, he can be quite cranky (read his FAQ and you'll see what I mean). He would fit in real nice with the gatekeepers on this site, but I will say, he is a pro.

For ex:

Q: If I get a complete overhaul on my Leica M3 camera does that include the rangefinder adjustment?
A: I don't get it. Why do you even have to ask this question? A complete overhaul means a COMPLETE overhaul, everything would be completely overhauled and since the rangefinder inside the camera is part of the camera then of course the rangefinder will be completely overhauled during a complete overhaul to your camera.
 
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