Leica M3 film advance. Is this normal?

ediz7531 said:
Thank you all for your input. It's hard to capture this on video...
Some clarifying thoughts: I have handled 1 or 2 M3's before. More recently, one from Igor Reznik, which unfortunately I had to send back due to a light leak. The latter *was* buttery smooth, so my expectations are normalized to reality. These were handmade of course, so I understand no two M3s will feel the same.

The camera I displayed the short clip of was CLA'd by Youxin last December.

Cheers,
Click to expand...
YYE does give some sort of "warranty" but no certain how long. Would be helpful if you had a service invoice (copy).

I have an M3 purchased from YYE . it is a DS and the winder is not "buttery". It's a little klunky. the shutter release IS buttery as is the shutter. Is yours a DS...the first stroke is longer than the second and can feel odd.
 
hap said:
YYE does give some sort of "warranty" but no certain how long. Would be helpful if you had a service invoice (copy).

I have an M3 purchased from YYE . it is a DS and the winder is not "buttery". It's a little klunky. the shutter release IS buttery as is the shutter. Is yours a DS...the first stroke is longer than the second and can feel odd.
Click to expand...

It's a single stroke.

It was just outside the warranty period, but even if it were not, it's not something that I'd ask him to honor since he's not really responsible for a back door having a dent. In the grand scheme of things, the ratchety feel is not a huge deal in the camera's operation -- I just happen to be very particular about a smooth film advance (Pentax SV anyone?? 🙂)
 
So I finally was able to shoot a test roll with this camera. Youxin had to try 7 film backs to find one that fit and that let the film advance normally, actually -- talk about the age of handmade fit! Now, looking at a test roll, 4 of the frames have what looks like a light leak. I emailed him and first of all he recommended to always keep the lens cap on in between shots. As for the film back, he suggested putting some tape along the bottom to rule out leaks coming from the back.

The second suggestion aside, I googled this some more, and I came across quite a few instances where people have this sort of leak, and the consensus seems to be it's because of the "light baffle". Is shooting with a lens cap on between shots something that people normally practice here as well? Never encountered this in the SLR world, so just thought I'd ask.

Here's a sample photo:

light leak by EI, on Flickr
 
ediz7531 said:
... Is shooting with a lens cap on between shots something that people normally practice here as well? Never encountered this in the SLR world, so just thought I'd ask.
...
Click to expand...

I've been making photos with my M3's since the 1980's, M6's since the 1990's, and have never used a lens cap. No light leaks whatsoever, ever.

Lens caps are just too annoying for me to use when making photos. The only time I use lens caps is if I have multiple lenses in a case - which is almost never.

Also no light leaks with my Leica III and IIIf.

I've encountered threads where people have discovered light leaking from the rangefinder section of their camera - it produces a distinct pattern. Your photo doesn't have that. It seems to me your leak is at the bottom of the door (hence top of image).

I'd go with the tape suggestion for now to help isolate the source. Maybe make a few test shots with bright sunlight at different angles, some shots just with tape and no cap, some shots with tape and cap, etc.
 
There are a couple of reasons for keeping the cap on the lens between exposures if there will be some time expiring. Since the shutter curtains are treated fabric, there is always the possibility of burning a hole in them if bright direct sunlight enters the lens. You don't have this issue on SLRs that have cloth shutters because the mirror is in the way of the light path.

The other reason is the slight possibility of light getting past the shutter curtains at the top or bottom of the frame if the end lath is slightly bent, or the curtains are curling (both are rare issues). Also light leakage through the curtains themselves if they are getting old and brittle.

Leaks around the door will manifest themselves over a wider area of the negative, from the very edge all the way to the other edge if it is extreme. Leaks from the front of the camera such as what you get when the curtains start to fail will only affect the area of the film that is in the film gate.

Other places where leaks occur is from the top of the camera, and at the strap lugs. Those have their own distinct patterns. And then there is the issue of internal reflections, mostly from light glaring off a chrome ring at the front of the lens, or non-coated optic elements if the lens is old enough.

PF
 
farlymac said:
There are a couple of reasons for keeping the cap on the lens between exposures if there will be some time expiring. Since the shutter curtains are treated fabric, there is always the possibility of burning a hole in them if bright direct sunlight enters the lens. ...
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Since we don't have sunlight here, that's never been a problem. However, when I'm in a place with sunlight, I always carry my camera in my hand, pointed towards the ground, or away from the sun. But that's just me.

Those who carry their camera on a shoulder strap, where the camera might be pointed at the sun for a bit of time, may indeed want a cap or at least cup their hand over the lens.

If you do use a cap, put something on it so, while looking through the viewfinder, you will notice your cap is still on.
 
Pál_K said:
Since we don't have sunlight here, that's never been a problem. However, when I'm in a place with sunlight, I always carry my camera in my hand, pointed towards the ground, or away from the sun. But that's just me.

Those who carry their camera on a shoulder strap, where the camera might be pointed at the sun for a bit of time, may indeed want a cap or at least cup their hand over the lens.

If you do use a cap, put something on it so, while looking through the viewfinder, you will notice your cap is still on.
Click to expand...

I use the same method most of the time. I'll put a cap back on when I have the camera on the passenger seat. One of my caps has a loop to be able to anchor a strap to it, and when I put it on the lens I make sure that loop is visible in the viewfinder. While using vented hoods it's easy to just check if you can see through the vents.

PF
 
arseniii said:
Question: How long does it take for the Sun to burn a hole in the shutter?

Correct Answer:
https://www.dagcamera.com/store/p145/How_Long_Does_It_Take_To_Burn_a_Hole_in_A_Shutter_Curtain%3F.html
Click to expand...

Interesting. There was some controversy, on AnOtHeR PhOtO fOrUm, questioning whether it was even possible to burn a hole in the shutter curtain. Some thought it was not possible.

For those not using a cap, I wonder if the risk can be mitigated by leaving the lens focused at the closest distance (or at least not at infinity) and by opening the aperture up wide rather than having it at f/16, f/11, or f/8.

With a mirrorless digital camera, isn't there equal danger in burning the sensor?

Oddly, my phone's camera sensor is never affected. Maybe the sensor is automatically capped when not using the camera.
 
Back on the film advance topic, my M3 DS is super smooth and silent on both the advance and return stroke.
All my other Ms that are Single Stroke are silent on the advance, and make that faint ratcheting sound on return.
 
farlymac said:
There are a couple of reasons for keeping the cap on the lens between exposures if there will be some time expiring. Since the shutter curtains are treated fabric, there is always the possibility of burning a hole in them if bright direct sunlight enters the lens. You don't have this issue on SLRs that have cloth shutters because the mirror is in the way of the light path.

The other reason is the slight possibility of light getting past the shutter curtains at the top or bottom of the frame if the end lath is slightly bent, or the curtains are curling (both are rare issues). Also light leakage through the curtains themselves if they are getting old and brittle.

Leaks around the door will manifest themselves over a wider area of the negative, from the very edge all the way to the other edge if it is extreme. Leaks from the front of the camera such as what you get when the curtains start to fail will only affect the area of the film that is in the film gate.

Other places where leaks occur is from the top of the camera, and at the strap lugs. Those have their own distinct patterns. And then there is the issue of internal reflections, mostly from light glaring off a chrome ring at the front of the lens, or non-coated optic elements if the lens is old enough.

PF
Click to expand...

Thank you. This makes sense.
 
hap said:
YYE does give some sort of "warranty" but no certain how long. Would be helpful if you had a service invoice (copy).

I have an M3 purchased from YYE . it is a DS and the winder is not "buttery". It's a little klunky. the shutter release IS buttery as is the shutter. Is yours a DS...the first stroke is longer than the second and can feel odd.
Click to expand...

I quick hack to make film advance "buttery" smooth is to USE your camera. It needs to get the parts moving and lube flowing just like in porn movies. All applies to cars as well.
 
Huss said:
Back on the film advance topic, my M3 DS is super smooth and silent on both the advance and return stroke.
All my other Ms that are Single Stroke are silent on the advance, and make that faint ratcheting sound on return.
Click to expand...

With the exception of the first single strokes, between 919k and 963k which retained the spring return mechanism of the DS. For some, these are regarded as giving the best of all M3 haptics...
 
The Leica M4-2 when it came to market lacked that buttery goodness smooth lever wind film advance, as when compared to the M4
 
My '58 M3 (late DS) is silky smooth. My recent hell and back '55 M3 is a bit clunky on the second stroke on occasion. There are a couple of new gears in it, I'm just hoping it's things wearing in. I also need to repair the back (mine has a damaged pressure plate) and I've got a replacement back on the way. Now I hope it fits, though I could always just change the plate over.
 
xayraa33 said:
The Leica M4-2 when it came to market lacked that buttery goodness smooth lever wind film advance, as when compared to the M4
Click to expand...

My M4-2 doesn't feel much different from my other Ms. I think usage has a lot to do with any of this.
My M-A feels the tightest, but that's because it is the newest.
 
I wanted to reply in regards to this problem, in case another person experiences this in the future. I ended up sending the camera to Don Goldberg for an overhaul, and replacing the light shields took care of the light leaks.

Really impressed with DAG. He even fixed one little thing I forgot to mention to him: when using a 50mm lens, one could see the lower right corner of the 90mm frameline in the viewfinder. The previous repair person who worked on the camera had claimed this was within factory tolerance.





ediz7531 said:
So I finally was able to shoot a test roll with this camera. Youxin had to try 7 film backs to find one that fit and that let the film advance normally, actually -- talk about the age of handmade fit! Now, looking at a test roll, 4 of the frames have what looks like a light leak. I emailed him and first of all he recommended to always keep the lens cap on in between shots. As for the film back, he suggested putting some tape along the bottom to rule out leaks coming from the back.

The second suggestion aside, I googled this some more, and I came across quite a few instances where people have this sort of leak, and the consensus seems to be it's because of the "light baffle". Is shooting with a lens cap on between shots something that people normally practice here as well? Never encountered this in the SLR world, so just thought I'd ask.

Here's a sample photo:

light leak by EI, on Flickr
Click to expand...
 
Leica M3 film advance. Is this normal?

ediz7531 said:
I wanted to reply in regards to this problem, in case another person experiences this in the future. I ended up sending the camera to Don Goldberg for an overhaul, and replacing the light shields took care of the light leaks.

Really impressed with DAG. He even fixed one little thing I forgot to mention to him: when using a 50mm lens, one could see the lower right corner of the 90mm frameline in the viewfinder. The previous repair person who worked on the camera had claimed this was within factory tolerance.
Click to expand...


Nice! DAG just finished my to hell and back m3 as well. It is now a smooth operator and the viewfinder is night and day. I found one thing missed, which would not be caught without film in the camera - the spool was slightly bent causing a film advance issue. Put in a replacement and a test roll seems fine moving through it. Have to shoot a second roll now for a final test.

Youxin just finished an m2 for me as well, looking forward to seeing the results. It’s still in the mail.
 
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