Leica M4 Trainer?

[raduray]

I'm a Z8 user and have shot SLR's ever since my Haminex Praktica back in the late 60's. I'm considering getting into rangefinders just for a more deliberate shooting process, and everything I've read so far points me to an M4. Large bright viewfinder, relatively inexpensive, and I'd be happy with an attached 35mm lens. But when I say relatively inexpensive, it's still expensive for an experience I'm not sure I'll like. All that to get to my request for an inexpensive mounted lens camera that I can use to evaluate the whole RF experience before I plunge into the deep $$$ pool. And while we're at it, any recommendations for an iPhone light meter app?

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

If you can find a Canon 7 and a Canon 35mm f2 rangefinder lens, that would give you what you want for about $500 total. Canon's rangefinder cameras and lenses used the Leica screwmount, so if you get an M4 later, you can get a Leica Screwmount lens to M camera adapter and use the Canon lens on the M4

 

[38Deardorff]

Like the Nike ad says "Just do it".......

 

[maddoc]

I'm a Z8 user and have shot SLR's ever since my Haminex Praktica back in the late 60's. I'm considering getting into rangefinders just for a more deliberate shooting process, and everything I've read so far points me to an M4. Large bright viewfinder, relatively inexpensive, and I'd be happy with an attached 35mm lens. But when I say relatively inexpensive, it's still expensive for an experience I'm not sure I'll like. All that to get to my request for an inexpensive mounted lens camera that I can use to evaluate the whole RF experience before I plunge into the deep $$$ pool. And while we're at it, any recommendations for an iPhone light meter app?

I would calculate ~ USD2500-3000 for a Leica M4 in good condition plus a 35/2.0 lens. If it hasn't to be a Leica lens, a Cosina Voigtländer 35/2.0 is an excellent choice, too. I use "myLightmeter" app on my iPhone, works very accurately.

 

[CameraQuest]

You can get arguably a better camera in the M5 for less than an M4.

 

[Beemermark]

All the same arguments . The M4 was the last of the in precision instruments. Expensive for a CLA because of the adjustments. The Leica philosophy at this point was cameras should last forever, no matter how mush use or abuse. I’ve used every Leica

 

[38Deardorff]

You can get arguably a better camera in the M5 for less than an M4.

Arguably......
("Let the Games Begin!!")

 

[raduray]

Thanks for the input. Just pulled the eBay trigger on a Canon 7 with the Canon 50mm f/1.4 from Japan. Touted as near mint and the seller has a 100% rating $300 shipped. Fingers crossed. Now gotta figure out what kind of film I want; probably black and white to start.

 

[raduray]

Like the Nike ad says "Just do it".......
View attachment 4870597

That camera's been places 🙂

 

[38Deardorff]

That camera's been places 🙂

It has...57 yrs and still going strong!

 

[Godfrey]

My uncle had an M5, and I had access to use it whenever I wanted. Never liked it.
An M4 is nice, but M4s are somewhat collectible and thus pricier. My meterless film M is an M4-2, which no one seems to like. I paid $750 for it a decade and some ago. It's a lovely camera. My metered film M is an M6 TTL with 0.85x viewfinder. I bought it a year and some ago, cost me about $2500 or some such: another lovely camera.

Almost any M in good condition will do as well. Other similar 35mm cameras ... well, there are a bunch of Voigtländers that seem to work well, the Canons are much older as are the Nikons. I'd just go for a Leica and not be bothered with "staging" up to it.

Lenses ... there are a lot of very nice lenses in M-mount and LTM. Take your pick. I have a Voigtländer Color-Skopar 50/2.5 that produces results virtually indistinguishable from the Summicron-M 50/2, and it was a $450 lens NEW in 2012.

But what's the big deal, after all? RF cameras are just cameras ... they're no harder to use than a 35mm SLR. You focus with a rangefinder rather than looking through the lens ... no big deal really.

G

 

[Richard G]

My uncle had an M5, and I had access to use it whenever I wanted. Never liked it.
An M4 is nice, but M4s are somewhat collectible and thus pricier. My meterless film M is an M4-2, which no one seems to like. I paid $750 for it a decade and some ago. It's a lovely camera. My metered film M is an M6 TTL with 0.85x viewfinder. I bought it a year and some ago, cost me about $2500 or some such: another lovely camera.

Almost any M in good condition will do as well. Other similar 35mm cameras ... well, there are a bunch of Voigtländers that seem to work well, the Canons are much older as are the Nikons. I'd just go for a Leica and not be bothered with "staging" up to it.

Lenses ... there are a lot of very nice lenses in M-mount and LTM. Take your pick. I have a Voigtländer Color-Skopar 50/2.5 that produces results virtually indistinguishable from the Summicron-M 50/2, and it was a $450 lens NEW in 2012.

But what's the big deal, after all? RF cameras are just cameras ... they're no harder to use than a 35mm SLR. You focus with a rangefinder rather than looking through the lens ... no big deal really.

G

If your pocket learns GAS here on RFF, it also learns Leica is not just about the glass, that is, not Leica’s glass. The boss’s Voigtländers can do as well or better than Leitz/Leica, at a fraction of the cost. Romance, style, the ZM Zeiss lenses are way up there too. (I do like my M5: it’s like a big dog, a brute of sorts, but dependable.)

 

[skopar steve]

I'm another M4-2 user. The 35mm2.0 summicron stays mounted most of the time. I sometimes wish I held out for an M4-P for the 28mm view lines. But the M4-2 viewfinder is less cluttered.

 

[chuckroast]

I own an M2, M4, and M5, all CLAed and working great.

Metering aside, they are all great shooters and far more alike than different. For that matter I can switch to my IIIf pretty seamlessly as well.

The differences between these cameras is 10% functional and 90% emotional, so for pure value, I land on the M2.

 

[steveyork]

If you can find a Canon 7 and a Canon 35mm f2 rangefinder lens, that would give you what you want for about $500 total. Canon's rangefinder cameras and lenses used the Leica screwmount, so if you get an M4 later, you can get a Leica Screwmount lens to M camera adapter and use the Canon lens on the M4

This here, noting that the form factor of a Canon 7 will be different than a classic M. Now of the unmetered 0.72 M's, an M2 (my fave) will probably cost a bit less than an M4, and really no functional difference between the two, other than how the film is loaded.

 

[MNS]

All that to get to my request for an inexpensive mounted lens camera that I can use to evaluate the whole RF experience before I plunge into the deep $$$ pool.

What I did was buy a cheap Soviet camera, FED or Zorki, in my case a Zorki 4K and once I found I liked using a Rangefinder, I saved up enough for a Leica M4-2.

£50 to £60 is a better lost than spend £2000 and then find you don't like it.

Thing I'll say is, with any used rangefinder be prepared you might have include a service cost on top of the purchase price.



I've still got the Zorki, it cost me £25, never been serviced and it's never let me down. 🙂

 

[Joerg]

Just buy the M4. You can always sell it w/o signifikant loss

Best

 

[chuckroast]

Arguably......
("Let the Games Begin!!")

I was kid, newly and deeply engrossed in photography when the M5 came out. I soooooooo wanted one. But the $948 for the body and 50mm f/1.4 Summilux was way outside my means. So I had to "settle" for a Nikon F Apollo Photomic FtN and 50mm f/1.4 Nikkor for a whopping $300.

Now many decades down the road, a few years ago, my M5 lust was satisfied when someone sold me their 50 Jahre "Jubilee" edition. I promptly had DAG rehab it and it's now a regular driver.

I cannot fathom the hate for the M5. Sure, it's different than the traditional Ms (which I also use) but - given its time - it is such a wonderful piece of photographic innovation. Moreover, it's more like an conventional M than not. The only thing really cognitively jarring about it is it's size and weight - it doesn't quite feel like a "normal" M. Maybe that's why people didn't like it, I dunno. One thing is for sure, the Japanese loved it. So much so, that there was apparently one last run of M5s made just for the Japanese market. Bless them for making these machines available for future purchasers.

But that meter was years ahead of the pack. It functions like a well calibrated spot meter and mine is dead on. Name any other 51 year old or older piece of machinery that still works like new ... well, I can, my IIIf, M2, and M4 all fit that description. My knees, not so much 😉

(I still have an Apollo F, though not my original one. It and its meter are still running strong too.)

 

[38Deardorff]

I was kid, newly and deeply engrossed in photography when the M5 came out. I soooooooo wanted one. But the $948 for the body and 50mm f/1.4 Summilux was way outside my means. So I had to "settle" for a Nikon F Apollo Photomic FtN and 50mm f/1.4 Nikkor for a whopping $300.

Now many decades down the road, a few years ago, my M5 lust was satisfied when someone sold me their 50 Jahre "Jubilee" edition. I promptly had DAG rehab it and it's now a regular driver.

I cannot fathom the hate for the M5. Sure, it's different than the traditional Ms (which I also use) but - given its time - it is such a wonderful piece of photographic innovation. Moreover, it's more like an conventional M than not. The only thing really cognitively jarring about it is it's size and weight - it doesn't quite feel like a "normal" M. Maybe that's why people didn't like it, I dunno. One thing is for sure, the Japanese loved it. So much so, that there was apparently one last run of M5s made just for the Japanese market. Bless them for making these machines available for future purchasers.

But that meter was years ahead of the pack. It functions like a well calibrated spot meter and mine is dead on. Name any other 51 year old or older piece of machinery that still works like new ... well, I can, my IIIf, M2, and M4 all fit that description. My knees, not so much 😉

(I still have an Apollo F, though not my original one. It and its meter are still running strong too.)

Hate is such a strong word. But you're absolutely right about handing & feel. It either fits you or doesn't. Unquestionably a great piece of engineering. I had one in the late '70s (for about a month). It was unwieldy to me, like getting out of a sports car and into a pickup truck.....traded it for another M4.
You're right about the meter though....love the smaller version on the CL.

 

[chuckroast]

Hate is such a strong word. But you're absolutely right about handing & feel. It either fits you or doesn't. Unquestionably a great piece of engineering. I had one in the late '70s (for about a month). It was unwieldy to me, like getting out of a sports car and into a pickup truck.....traded it for another M4.
Your right about the meter though....love the smaller version on the CL.

I have large hands, and that camera in a Mr. Zhou half case fits quite nicely.