Leica M5 Automatic anyone?

[Abbazz]

Our "friend" Boris is selling a few rarities from the Leica Factory Museum. There should be more items coming during the next few months. As usual, everything seems greatly overpriced. Here's the link for those with deep pockets: http://arsenalphoto.com/ge/index.asp?act=lst&caty=501

The most interesting item seems to be this funky looking Leica M5 Automatic:

This 140,000.00 Euros prototype (not even in very good shape) comes complete with an Elmar 2.8/50 lens in Compur shutter offering speeds from 1/2000 to 30 sec. A Leica with a leaf shutter, now that's interesting 😀

Cheers!

Abbazz

 

[M. Valdemar]

They have the very rare Red Flag Hongqi with all the lenses for about $25,000, but I think the price is insane.

I'm sorely tempted, I've wanted one of those damn things forever.

Where does this Arsenal come up with this stuff? You have to give them credit for that.

 

[Trius]

So would this be even quieter than other Ms? And is it really an M if it is leaf shutter rather than focal plane? 😉

If it had been re-covered in fuschia I might be interested. 😀

 

[Abbazz]

There are a few things bothering me when I look at this prototype:

- The speed selector ring is attached to the body lensmount and there is obviously no leaf shutter at this location. If the leaf shutter is in the lens, then why the speed selector is not on the lens as well?

- I have never heard of a Compur shutter offering speeds from 1/2000 to 30 sec. The fastest leaf shutter available around that time reached 1/1000 sec. only (it was the not-so-reliable Graflex 1000 shutter of the Super Speed Graphic).

- As the lightmeter is located on the camera body, the automatic exposure feature would require some mechanical or electric coupling between the lens and the camera body, which seems absent from this sample.

What do you think?

Cheers!

Abbazz

 

[sepiareverb]

I bet it's a dummy.

 

[venchka]

Given all of the whining one reads here about focus tabs and infinty locks, that fold away "focusing aid" would send more than a few folks into orbit. Thankfully not all of Leica's dreams make it to market.

 

[ath]

There are a few things bothering me when I look at this prototype:

- The speed selector ring is attached to the body lensmount and there is obviously no leaf shutter at this location. If the leaf shutter is in the lens, then why the speed selector is not on the lens as well?

- I have never heard of a Compur shutter offering speeds from 1/2000 to 30 sec. The fastest leaf shutter available around that time reached 1/1000 sec. only (it was the not-so-reliable Graflex 1000 shutter of the Super Speed Graphic).

- As the lightmeter is located on the camera body, the automatic exposure feature would require some mechanical or electric coupling between the lens and the camera body, which seems absent from this sample.

What do you think?

Cheers!

Abbazz

There are two brass levers in the mount; one could be designed to transfer the speed selector to the actual shutter in the lens; the other to transfer the aperture setting from the lens to the body. In this case all information for proper exposure would be present in the body.

 

[jgeenen]

Given all of the whining one reads here about focus tabs and infinty locks, that fold away "focusing aid" would send more than a few folks into orbit. Thankfully not all of Leica's dreams make it to market.

It cannot be a focusing aid - the focusing ring is at the front. If leaf shutter it could be the cocking lever. But searching for the aperture selector unsuccessfully I believe this "thing" has to do with some kind of aperture automatics...

 

[venchka]

I saw that later

I saw that later

It cannot be a focusing aid - the focusing ring is at the front. If leaf shutter it could be the cocking lever. But searching for the aperture selector unsuccessfully I believe this "thing" has to do with some kind of aperture automatics...

I noticed the edge of something brass and figured the handle moved. It would still send a lot of folks into orbit.

"It's just so BIG!"😀

 

[Ororaro]

Decidedly, anything "M5" was destined to be ugly and almost gross.
The finder looks clumsy but what about the integrated flash? (Is that it?) If not, waht is it?

 

[Tuolumne]

Man, that thing is really ugly. The REAL M5 is a beauty, though.

/T

 

[venchka]

What are the odds of a real prototype having a serial number like this? 0023456? Looks strange to me.

 

[Ororaro]

Man, that thing is really ugly. The REAL M5 is a beauty, though.

/T

Yes, I like the real M5. But history doesn't lie: the M5 was disliked and it seems any kind of M5 was destined to make Leica understand that a change of design would be unacceptable. The "regular" M line is so sexy and a dream to hold and fiddle.

This makes me realize that the drastic M5 move was a good thing, after all. What would the M line look like today if the changes from M5 to M6 to M7 to M8 (etc) were incremental?
Leica understood from its M5 "error" that any change to its original design is out of the question, forever. Good thing,

 

[Bully]

This prototype looks very strange.
I´ve found it in the Leica Collectors Guide of Dennis Laney 2. Edition on page 120. This model is "an early concept prototype with built-in selenium meter".
There are no more informations in Laney´s book but it is a very interesting piece of Leica history.

It shows very well the many ways the Leica engineers and technicians walked before they decided to take the path to the well-known Leica M5, unfortunately it was the road to hell...
But today the M5 stays for one of the most innovative paths Leica has ever walked. I would compare these 70´s times with the beginning of the new century when Leica created the AE for the M7 and last but not least the way from the M7 / MP to the digital M8. This was without a doupt the biggest challenge for this little factory.

Long live Leica

 

[Tuolumne]

Yes, I like the real M5. But history doesn't lie: the M5 was disliked and it seems any kind of M5 was destined to make Leica understand that a change of design would be unacceptable. The "regular" M line is so sexy and a dream to hold and fiddle.

This makes me realize that the drastic M5 move was a good thing, after all. What would the M line look like today if the changes from M5 to M6 to M7 to M8 (etc) were incremental?
Leica understood from its M5 "error" that any change to its original design is out of the question, forever. Good thing,

True, but look at the reprecussions for digital. We are now stuck with a 60 year old form-factor while trying to build digital bodies in the 21st century. Makes it extra hard to keep the good old RF genre going.

/T

 

[Ororaro]

True, but look at the reprecussions for digital. We are now stuck with a 60 year old form-factor while trying to build digital bodies in the 21st century. Makes it extra hard to keep the good old RF genre going.

/T

The M aura and cult is the only thing keeping the rangefinder genre alive, IMO.

 

[JNewell]

Take a look at the profile of the body from below and tell me where you've seen that body shell before. It is a production body...

 

[JNewell]

The M aura and cult is the only thing keeping the rangefinder genre alive, IMO.

Ten years ago I would definitely have agreed with you. It was already almost true when I bought my M3 in 1972 or 73. Today, though, I think there has been a rebirth. It's a small segment, but I think it has genuine life based on the rangefinder as a supplemental tool rather just a cult.

 

[Ororaro]

Ten years ago I would definitely have agreed with you. It was already almost true when I bought my M3 in 1972 or 73. Today, though, I think there has been a rebirth. It's a small segment, but I think it has genuine life based on the rangefinder as a supplemental tool rather just a cult.

Please notice the Rebirth exactly matches the M8's venue...

 

[JNewell]

I would have pegged it a few years earlier when the CV lenses and bodies started to get some legs. I'm not sure (I mean that literally, not as in "I don't think") the M8 has really done anything to expand RF use? I have the impression, which might be wrong, that most M8 users were already Leica users, not new "converts."