Leica M6 - Dark Streaks on Film

[schlops]

Hey there,

since a while, I've been getting my photos ruined by these mysterious streaks on the film. As you can see, they are always in the same spot, so I figure the Leica is the problem. The film (HP5+) and the development can't be the problem, as it doesn't happen with other cameras + they wouldn't be in the same exact place.

At first, I only noticed the upper (here on the right) streak happening here and there, thinking it was a developing mistake but now it's looking like this.

My guess is, that the problem is the shutter speed of 1/1000, as I just recently started pushing to ISO800 for a project and therefore need 1/1000 in bright sunlight. I never go above f11.

The lens is a Voigtländer Ultron 35mm f2 Vintage and a brand-new high quality Orange Filter. Filter and Lens look - with the naked eye - mint.

Do you guys have ever seen something like that? Or do you think it has something to do with the lens/filter and a high f-stop? As I said, the streak on the upper (in attached pictures on the right) side, happened from time to time, even before I got the filter. For the moment, I can only test combinations of f-stop, shutterspeed & filter, as I don't have another lens.

Desperately hoping you guys can help me, as I already have dozens of rolls, from a long trip to Italy, ruined by this.

Take care
Alex

 

[keytarjunkie]

I agree with Chris, most likely pinholes on the front or rear curtain, since they travel across the length of the frame, or something else related to the way the curtains are traveling at the highest speeds. Check out the curtains for yourself with a flashlight or sunlight. Either way, you will need a CLA and likely new curtains.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

How was the camera held for these images?
wind side up or rewind side up? The speed was 1/1000?

 

[Bill Blackwell]

That's allot of pinholes - if that's the problem. It could be an issue with the pressure plate scratching the film. Or - although I've never seen this symptom from a bad light shield - it could be that too.

 

[schlops]

I agree with Chris, most likely pinholes on the front or rear curtain, since they travel across the length of the frame, or something else related to the way the curtains are traveling at the highest speeds. Check out the curtains for yourself with a flashlight or sunlight. Either way, you will need a CLA and likely new curtains.

Makes sense and at the same time no sense to me 😀 Shouldn't they be on every single photo then? Regardless of shutterspeed or f-stop
Checked them out with a flashlight just now, I can't see anything

 

[schlops]

How was the camera held for these images?
wind side up or rewind side up? The speed was 1/1000?

Can't vouch for that in this case, but usually I'm holding it rewind-side up. It's on the ones I shot vertically too.

 

[schlops]

That's allot of pinholes - if that's the problem. It could be an issue with the pressure plate scratching the film. Or - although I've never seen this symptom from a bad light shield - it could could be that too.

I think so too. I'm also not quite sure, why the curtains should have so many pinholes out of nowhere and not constantly becoming more and more.

The pressure plate looks and feels fine and there are no scratches on the film.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I just thought of something: I had this happen with a screwmount Leica. On them, the curtain fabric is sewed around the outside of the metal bar at the end of each curtain. Over time, bumps can form on the section of curtain curved around the front edge, and at high speeds these bumps actually cause exposure to be slightly less where they are because they effectively reduce the slit width at high speeds.

This can't happen with an M-series Leica because the metal bar is outside the curtain...BUT maybe the front edge of the metal curtain bar is dusty or has chips in the finish? That could give the same effect. Don Goldberg (DAG) has an article on his website about it happening to the screwmount cameras. Be sure to look at all the example photos he shows.

https://www.dagcamera.com/store/p219/Shutter_Curtain_Problems_in_the_Screw-Mount_Cameras.html

 

[oldwino]

I think it’s the shutter. The slit between the curtains is very narrow at 1/1000, and any bit of dirt, or frayed fabric would possibly cause a noticeable exposure change in that area.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

I just thought of something: I had this happen with a screwmount Leica. On them, the curtain fabric is sewed around the outside of the metal bar at the end of each curtain. Over time, bumps can form on the section of curtain curved around the front edge, and at high speeds these bumps actually cause exposure to be slightly less where they are because they effectively reduce the slit width at high speeds.

This can't happen with an M-series Leica because the metal bar is outside the curtain...BUT maybe the front edge of the metal curtain bar is dusty or has chips in the finish? That could give the same effect. Don Goldberg (DAG) has an article on his website about it happening to the screwmount cameras. Be sure to look at all the example photos he shows.

https://www.dagcamera.com/store/p219...t_Cameras.html

Thanks Chris, you've saved me referencing Don's site and images myself. Because it's * not* pinholes, of course. There are no traces of additional exposure from light leaking through. This is an *underexposure* problem. Why, is hard to be definitive about but you have raised some possibilities. If it was my camera I'd gently tease the curtain ends apart a couple of millimetres with it half wound and clean the ends. I can do that without upsetting the curtains or ribbons. If that helped, well and good. But the 1/1000 may be a little out of adjustment (there's a dedicated adjustment for the 1/1000 slit on late screw mounts and Ms) or, the camera may simply be due for service to get both blinds running perfectly.

The reason I asked about which way up the camera was being held is because the streaks are more pronounced over one half of the frame length. This isn't necessarily inconsistent with a shutter that is still in reasonable adjustment. It's not like the exposure is drastically altering across the gate. There's little if any tapering which would indicate the curtains are not running to spec. At the same time: the slit in a perfectly adjusted shutter is not going to be precisely the same width across the entire gate. The first curtain needs to pull ahead marginally, so that as they both accelerate, the reduction in the time it takes for the slit to sweep the gate is offset. Hence, you'd expect to see the streaks more on the side of the negative (inverted on film) being caused at the beginning of the curtain run. As the first curtain draws away slightly during the run, the effects of any unevenness on the edge profiles becomes less significant.

I'm still half asleep, so cut me some slack, please; but with the camera held rewind side up the end of the gate is at the top. Start at the bottom. Invert that on film, and it supports what you have suggested.

Of course it's also entirely possible the shutter just needs a CLA. It's not running very poorly if this is 1/1000 as basic exposure is OK. Point is, in light of what we have both mentioned—might be a quick and easy fix—if he's lucky.

Whether the owner is up to intervening is on him. I have enough experience and competence to gently wipe the ends down in situ without affecting the blinds. If he's in doubt, it's an M6—have it checked on a tester by a competent tech and go from there.

 

[ooze]

As oldwino said, it’s the 1/1000 speed and narrowness of the slit. I had the exact same issue on a brand new M6 20 years ago. Sent it back to Leica and they supposedly fixed it. It was better, but not perfect.

 

[Fraser]

Almost looks like a scanning issue, can you see the marks easily on the negs ? As you say its probably isn't a processing issue if the marks are always in the same place,

 

[schlops]

Chriscrawfordphoto - oldwino - Sarcophilus Harrisii - ooze

Thanks to all of you, I don't want to be too excited, especially after so many ruined films, which I can fix in Photoshop, but they are no use to me in the darkroom. BUT I finally got an explanation, that makes sense to me.

That supports my theory with the faster shutterspeeds. I can just speculate which I used for each photo, but I definitely know from a few.
There could be one bigger bump, which causes only one stripe/streak to appear when using 1/500.
Of course, it can't be a lightleak of any sort, as they are dark stripes. My head is all over the place after so much thinking, calling people, testing and frustration of course.

I checked the end of the shutters with a magnifying glas (could only make out a little bump) and gently wiped it.

I will shoot another test roll against a greycard or the sky with different shutterspeeds and will let you know about the results.


Either way I'm gonna get another CLA and probably have the shutter replaced.
Can you guys recommend a place in Europe? The last place I used in my hometown definitely lack the "experience and competence".

 

[schlops]

Almost looks like a scanning issue, can you see the marks easily on the negs ? As you say its probably isn't a processing issue if the marks are always in the same place,

Nope, sadly not. They are clearly visible on the negs and are not on every picture.

 

[Rob-F]

In my experience, holes in the shutter curtain would cause maximum density spots on the negatives and white spots in the print. It must be something else. They don't look like scratches, either.

 

[raid]

Having your M6 checked by a qualified repair person may be best to curtail the worries and guessing. The discussions shown here are actually very useful!

 

[Rob-F]

The streaks are always darker, in the print, than the surrounding area, indicating the negative got less exposure where the streaks are. I don't see how this can be caused by a light leak. I do see how this can be caused by some sort of debris clinging to the shutter end, as mentioned above. I agree that cleaning the shutter curtain end is a good idea.

 

[schlops]

Guys! I didn't have time to scan the negatives, but the testshots look clean! I just pulled the shutters apart, cleaned the edges and gave it a good blow with the Air Blower.

Still gonna have it looked at, just to be sure. I think the shutter speeds are also not that correct anymore.

Thanks to all of you, I really appreciate it.

P.s.: Gonna post the test shots soon

 

[santino]

Don‘t waste your money, don‘t have it looked at if it works. Every repair/check can be a potential risk (if it isn‘t broke, don‘t fix it).

 

[Rob-F]

Santino, can he at least have the shutter speeds checked?