Leica M6 vs. Konica Hexar RF vs. Zeiss Ikon ZM

[FrankS]

While I have a properly working Hexar RF, and its low magnification viewfinder pairs perfectly with my Canon 28f3.5 lens, I would not recommend it as your only RF camera, due to its battery dependence and the difficulty with repair compared to M Leica. It does make a great second body to an M Leica though, and having 2 bodies is a good thing, IMO.

 

[lynxkcg]

This thread is not helpful to my wallet 🙁
I've been waffling between more slr gear or selling it for an M6, you guys almost have me sold on the Leica.

 

[raid]

I am seriously considering taking with me on a trip the M6 and the Hexar, as a combo.
The Hexar makes a great back-up camera.

 

[Moriturii]

While I have a properly working Hexar RF, and its low magnification viewfinder pairs perfectly with my Canon 28f3.5 lens, I would not recommend it as your only RF camera, due to its battery dependence and the difficulty with repair compared to M Leica. It does make a great second body to an M Leica though, and having 2 bodies is a good thing, IMO.

Well, you say that but it's not like an DSLR. Hexar uses very little juice and somehow squeezes in more the 120 rolls of film. Very afraid of running out of batteries still? pop two more batteries in your pocket -_-. So "battery dependency" is hardly an issue in real world practice.

 

[FrankS]

Well, you say that but it's not like an DSLR. Hexar uses very little juice and somehow squeezes in more the 120 rolls of film. Very afraid of running out of batteries still? pop two more batteries in your pocket -_-. So "battery dependency" is hardly an issue in real world practice.

Agreed. I'm just funny that way. I feel reassured having a mechanical camera in the bag, or in the car, or in the hotel room, just in case. When something goes wrong with an electronic camera, it is often without any warning and is totally debilitating.

Anyway, aside from the battery dependency issue or rather non-issue, like I said, the low mag viewfinder of the HRF gives me 28mm framelines, and the M2 is great for 50mm. No need to switch my 2 most used focal lengths onto a single body with framelines not optimized for one or the other.

 

[pb908]

I am seriously considering taking with me on a trip the M6 and the Hexar, as a combo.
The Hexar makes a great back-up camera.

Why not doing it in reverse
Hexar deserve to be my (your) main camera. Higher shutter speed, faster operation, never flare finder. With 35mm nokton, it makes perfect combo.

I like the idea of backup camera, which mecanically will stay survive. That's why my leica used to be the backup. With the m6 price,you can get hexar+leica iiif/c, thats agood deal!

Did you ever use dslr? They are all battey dependant, and yet everyone use it
then why not buy the great(est) one? In rf world, i believe hexar rf is.
It has been years since last time i swap battery on myhexar, acually i forget when was the time,it keeps running and running and yet i haven't see any blink of low bat

 

[bobby_novatron]

.

Yes I would agree -- the battery issue is really a 'non-issue' ... it's not a lot of trouble to keep a couple of A76 cells in one's pocket or camera bag.

lnyxkcg -- if you're considering changing from the SLR world to Rangefinderland, make sure you do your research. I actually shoot both SLR (Canon EOS 3) and rangefinder (Leica M6, various M-mount lenses) and I like using both, but for different situations and reasons. Each system is really good at certain things and both have their merits, for my style of shooting anyway.

I am not of the opinion that one has to devote one's self exclusively shoot SLR or RF ... it's what each individual values and is comfortable with. For me, they're both useful.

 

[hlockwood]

Thanks. But the webpage of the guy indicates "No service at the moment".

Read the rest of the thread; he's back in business. The earthquake/tsunami caused a temporary shutdown.

Harry

 

[zerobuttons]

Hexar RF might be nice if it works. Bought mine on the evil bay and it never worked properly. Repair in Europe seems not to be possible anymore so it's the most expensive paperweight I own.
.....

Have you asked Will van Manen and Cathy Kuiper whether they can solve your problem?
http://www.kamera-service.info/

 

[zerobuttons]

.....
Anyway, what would you guys recommend?
.....

If you´re new to rangefinders, I would recommend doing what I did (without planning it so): get a fairly cheap rangefinder camera and use that for a while and see if rangefinder photography is really for you, and then go ahead and get something more expensive if you feel like it. Make sure that you get a camera that is flawless, so that you won´t have to be bothered by having it repaired to be able to use it. For this purpose I would suggest the ZI or the Hexar RF used or a new Bessa.

I got a Hexar RF for a fair price a few years ago. I did have to send it to Will van Manen after a year, because it suddenly suffered from the rangefinder-adjustment problem that is well-known with this model. I still own and use it with the 50mm Hexanon I got with the camera, and somewhere along the line I also acquired a Leica MP with Summicron 35 and 90.

 

[Moriturii]

I tell you what Hexar does better and you decide;

- 1/4000 shutter speed

- State of the art viewfinder. Great for 28-50mm, bad for 90mm and up. The M2 and M3 has a very squinty viewfinder as opposed to the Hexar RF which is a joy, especially if you live in a constantly sunny environment and don't feel like taking your sun-glasses off every time you need to look into the viewfinder.

- VERY accurate exposure from the shutter at all shutter speeds (which is something that can hardly be said of Leicas)

- You can see the exact exposure in the viewfinder in relation to the shutter speed you have selected, i.e you know exactly how many stops over or under you are as opposed to the ambiguous one in Leicas

- Swing door loading, although using an M4 and newer type loading Leica is perfectly alright.

- Motorwind, next frame and all the way back. + 2.5fps continuous (Some people argue that camera is not quiet enough, but you will find that people who complain about quietness are people who actually sit in front of the computer on camera forums instead of actually going out and taking photos and don't want to admit that putting a camera up to your face is quite a bigger deal then the noise of a shutter, but I digress)

- Just as rugged as any Leica I've used (some people mistake heaviness = better built, not so. If a camera is more heavy it simply means is more heavy. Has titanium top and bottom cover)

- You get about 120+ rolls of film from two batteries, extraordinary.

- Oh, the Hexar RF is about the price of an M3. Hexar RF + the state of the art (both in performance and build quality) 50mm M-Hexanon is about... 1200ish dollars? About the price of an M6. I got mine Hexar and 50mm for $1100.


Things Leica does better;

- The rangefinder is rock solid, the hexar's rangefinder (not viewfinder) seem to be not as good but still very good. Although this is what I've heard/read mine personally works great. Then again, adjusting rangefinder is a 15min job. ( http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1937 )

- cant thing of anything else... Leica looks better?
- has a healty amount of places to fix your camera when it breaks down.

 

[FrankS]

The HRF has a tiny but perceptible amount of shutter lag, (which I can live with given the positive attributes of this camera,) compared to Leica M.

I have 2 of the 3 horses in this race - a HRF and an M2.

 

[Tom Diaz]

Hey guys! So I know at his forum people are very passionate about their own rangefinders, but I wanted to get some opinions. I am looking to get a really nice rangefinder that can handle M mount lenses. I am considering getting one of the three: Leica M6, Konica Hexar RF or the Zeiss Ikon ZM. I know all three cameras are great, but I am having trouble deciding which one to get. I have seen reviews for all of them but I just can't decide which one to get. So I am looking to you, the members of such an awesome forum! (That last sentence was really lame...)

Anyway, what would you guys recommend? Also, If theere is an awesome review out their that you think I should see, please share! Thank you!

I see that, on ebay, you can get a titanium Hexar RF with the matching 50mm f/1.2 lens, in apparently unused condition, for $4000-$5000. Ay, ay, ay!

That doesn't address any of the concerns about where you'd get the Hexar repaired when it needs repair. But, you would have that cool lens. The lens is probably worth a fair amount by itself if you didn't want to keep it in the long run.

You have to realize that this forum usually combines this kind of information with practical advice.

Tom

 

[filmfan]

Easily the M6 without any questions involved.

 

[rivyr]

Thank you all so much for the responses! They were very helpful! But now I have to questions/concerns.

I think I want to go with the Leica M6, but I want to pay about $1,000-1,400 for it. The problem that I run into is that if I buy it off of ebay, then I might need to send it in. How much does that cost? If it needs a repair, how much money are we looking at? If it is too much than maybe I will buy the Hexar, which I know requires repairs a lot, but I don't think it cost too much. Or maybe it does, I don't know.

Anyway, what do you people advise?

 

[Tom Diaz]

Thank you all so much for the responses! They were very helpful! But now I have to questions/concerns.

I think I want to go with the Leica M6, but I want to pay about $1,000-1,400 for it. The problem that I run into is that if I buy it off of ebay, then I might need to send it in. How much does that cost? If it needs a repair, how much money are we looking at? If it is too much than maybe I will buy the Hexar, which I know requires repairs a lot, but I don't think it cost too much. Or maybe it does, I don't know.

Anyway, what do you people advise?

I'd advise buying a used M6 from a good store in your area, if possible. There are camera stores in my area (Boston) that have used M6s, where you could look someone in the eye and get a story on whether the camera had recently been serviced and tested, if service is available, how much, etc. A good store would try to give you some satisfaction if the camera then had problems that were not immediately apparent.

It seems important since, at the price range you're talking about, you would be buying a camera that has seen some use. As others have noted, a heavily used Leica could be in excellent shape even if it has never been serviced. (True of my M6TTL.) However, it might also have been damaged and need more than just a cleaning, lubrication, and adjustment. If it needs more, that can be big bucks.

Alternatively, find out the price of a CLA at a local shop. (Again, it's nice to be able to talk to the service person face to face.) Add that to the price of any ebay purchase that looks right. Actually, I think I would look for a used camera from a big camera store that sells online if I could not find one in a local store. A more anonymous ebay seller would be my third choice, although I have not had bad experiences with careful ebay purchases except a couple of things that were damaged in shipment.

Good luck! You won't be sorry you bought an M6.

Tom

 

[Benjamin Marks]

May I just pose a generic question: why would anyone send $1400 to someone who they don't know on ebay for a promise to deliver a small, precision object. I like dealing with folks on RFF who at least have a reputation to protect in this community. Whether or not a camera needs a CLA is a judgment call. My bias: Most don't. I have a cabinet full of cameras that are 20 to 70 years old. I only send them in when something is broken. My unsolicited advice: unless gambling is your thing, buy from an RFF'er or buy from KEH or a similar used-equipment merchant with a real store and a real phone and a real person on the other end who can help you solve a problem, if there is one with your camera. Ebay is like a world wide yard sale. If you have to ask "what if . . " about an ebay purchase, then you are in over your head. For. Get. It. Just pony up a 10% premium for an actual merchant's profit margin and don't look back.

 

[elmer3.5]

Zi

Zi

Hi, very interesting question.

After using and abusing this three cameras for almost three years i can say the best for actual shooting is the Zeiss Ikon, it´s always handy, lightweight and very precise in every way.
Some might think it´s not to leica quality, but on the streets it never lacked anything...
The hexar rf is too heavy but really fast, the top speed of 4000 is quite usefull when you want to isolate subject in broad day light.
Film rewind helped me a lot changing iso in a "blink of an eye" pan f to superia 1600 as i walked in dark places.

The m6 is a jewell...sweet...but ae is a must for me right know.

Now i use an m9 but i really miss the lightweight and VF RF of the ZI, superior IMO.

Bye!

 

[sanmich]

Only camera?
the M6
as a backup, and for something allowing more automation, the RF sounds great.
Only problem is that there are no spare parts, and I heard from a reliable source that some early ones had RFs that were plain wrong, and there is no way to get it right...

 

[Tom Diaz]

May I just pose a generic question: why would anyone send $1400 to someone who they don't know on ebay for a promise to deliver a small, precision object. I like dealing with folks on RFF who at least have a reputation to protect in this community. Whether or not a camera needs a CLA is a judgment call. My bias: Most don't. I have a cabinet full of cameras that are 20 to 70 years old. I only send them in when something is broken. My unsolicited advice: unless gambling is your thing, buy from an RFF'er or buy from KEH or a similar used-equipment merchant with a real store and a real phone and a real person on the other end who can help you solve a problem, if there is one with your camera. Ebay is like a world wide yard sale. If you have to ask "what if . . " about an ebay purchase, then you are in over your head. For. Get. It. Just pony up a 10% premium for an actual merchant's profit margin and don't look back.

You can't always get what you want at KEH or RFF, but yes, for something like an M6 I agree with you. Go to a real store.

I too fix things only if they are broken. However, even from a neighborhood store, an M6 could be 20+ years old and have something wrong with it, so one needs a repair budget. I would not worry so much about a repair budget if buying from someone like KEF, who provide a warranty on used equipment. However, their M6s (at the moment, anyway), are more expensive than the original poster was hoping.

Tom