pb908
Well-known
just handle my friend M6 (classic), with it's mint condition finder.
I try to compare the VF with my M3 and Hexar RF.
really surprised to see the white-out patch issue on M6 and really nothing on M3 and H-RF.
for a camera which cost more than 1000$, it's rub!$#.
testing condition = bright light room, camera is slightly pointed up (so slightly), I put my finger blocking the RF window, so my assumtion is I should see the RF patch become "BLACK" in the VF. guess what ?? it was TOTALLY WRONG !!
the problem become worst if I put my eyes a little bit off center (with the same setup condition). the brighter the frameline you see, the brighter the white-out will be. for you who never see how bad is the white-out, here are few example i shoot with my digicam.
see the white block in the center
all pictures were taken with a small angle from digicam, to show you the worst case
with your eye moving right to the left in front of VF, you will see pure white, and suddently a small strip of black (my finder is blocking the RF, right ?) and again pure white..
doesn't mean to bash leica, but for the price, it's totally rub!$# !!!
even with cheap a bessa, when you move your eye off center, you just see the patch move little bit, but not PURE WHITE !!!
if you really enjoying taking picture with leica, get M2/M3/M4 with a mint VF. it worth every dollar you spent !!, or else, get a bessa/hexar RF..
I try to compare the VF with my M3 and Hexar RF.
really surprised to see the white-out patch issue on M6 and really nothing on M3 and H-RF.
for a camera which cost more than 1000$, it's rub!$#.
testing condition = bright light room, camera is slightly pointed up (so slightly), I put my finger blocking the RF window, so my assumtion is I should see the RF patch become "BLACK" in the VF. guess what ?? it was TOTALLY WRONG !!
the problem become worst if I put my eyes a little bit off center (with the same setup condition). the brighter the frameline you see, the brighter the white-out will be. for you who never see how bad is the white-out, here are few example i shoot with my digicam.
see the white block in the center
all pictures were taken with a small angle from digicam, to show you the worst case
with your eye moving right to the left in front of VF, you will see pure white, and suddently a small strip of black (my finder is blocking the RF, right ?) and again pure white..
doesn't mean to bash leica, but for the price, it's totally rub!$# !!!
even with cheap a bessa, when you move your eye off center, you just see the patch move little bit, but not PURE WHITE !!!
if you really enjoying taking picture with leica, get M2/M3/M4 with a mint VF. it worth every dollar you spent !!, or else, get a bessa/hexar RF..
skibeerr
Well-known
What worked for me is to tilt the camera slightly the rangefinder flare dissapears, focus and compose.
You are addressing nothing new here, it is well documented on the net and Youxin Ye will install a mp upgrade for app. 145$ end of problem.
I didn't bother, it only appears in specific conditions, in real world maybe 1 in 100 shots.
You are addressing nothing new here, it is well documented on the net and Youxin Ye will install a mp upgrade for app. 145$ end of problem.
I didn't bother, it only appears in specific conditions, in real world maybe 1 in 100 shots.
Lflex
Lflex
An m2/3/4 is no substitute for an M6 if you want a build in meter.
pb908
Well-known
i own 3 leica which i like a lot.
I never handle m6 or whatever model with the white out feature + high price. My point here is not bashing leica, i believe a lot people never handle m6 nor see the white out problem.
Why i block the rf window, because i want to see how the white out perform without any image in the rf patch. In real world scenario, this make things worst. The rf patch image is kind of foggy, and suddenly became full white if your eye off center a LITTLE BIT. How can you focus a rangefinder like this.
Try an m2,m3,hexar rf, or even cheap bessa. It's different like night and day. If you happy & can live with it, no problem. But for people thinking to buy it, just think twice..or else think to add few more bucks to fix the finder..
Moriturii
Well-known
I know, why I sold my M4-P.
M3 was amazing, M4-P awful (and by extension, the M6, because they are identical)
My Hexar RF though, haven't gotten it to white out ever at any time yet. I'm still trying though, just for science. And I never had to do juggling trick with blocking the RF patch and yada yada. Just sayin'
M3 was amazing, M4-P awful (and by extension, the M6, because they are identical)
My Hexar RF though, haven't gotten it to white out ever at any time yet. I'm still trying though, just for science. And I never had to do juggling trick with blocking the RF patch and yada yada. Just sayin'
Hilm3
Established
I found this to be rare with my M6 and easy to live with - just move your eye off axis by a millimeter. Or you can send the M6 to Solms, and for only $500 or so, get the MP finder transplant 
.
.Roger Hicks
Veteran
It's not a frequent problem, but when it happens.... ARGH! M4-P not M6, but I understand that the problem is the same.
The worst time was a concert 15 years ago where I got more flare-out than not, and simply switched to the M2 I was also carrying.
Few on this forum would accuse me of Leica bashing...
Cheers,
R.
The worst time was a concert 15 years ago where I got more flare-out than not, and simply switched to the M2 I was also carrying.
Few on this forum would accuse me of Leica bashing...
Cheers,
R.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
A small dot of gaffer tape partially covering the center of the frameline illumination window pretty much eliminates the problem. When it is a problem. Which is rarely.
I've had the MP optics installed in my M6 (Sherry was opening up the camera anyway), and while there's a detectable improvement, it makes little practical difference. It was seldom problem in the 10+ years that I shot the M6 before the upgrade.
I've had the MP optics installed in my M6 (Sherry was opening up the camera anyway), and while there's a detectable improvement, it makes little practical difference. It was seldom problem in the 10+ years that I shot the M6 before the upgrade.
pismo923
Established
Has anyone here installed the "Shade" from leicagoodies.com ? Not a substitute for a finder upgrade but if it helps then it is an inexpensive upgrade.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
The white out issue has happened a lot to me, especially under harsh lighting where there are bright lights in dim scenes. I had it cured by getting a MP finder upgrade when I had my camera overhauled by Sherry.
Now under the dim lighting that I often shoot under I find my M6 VF'er to be brighter and easier to focus due to higher contrast than my higher magnification M3. For low lighting my M6 is a better camera, but this does not allow me to say my M3 is rubbish.
I could also point out that a M6 has certain obvious advantages, but perhaps I'm wasting my time.
Cal
Now under the dim lighting that I often shoot under I find my M6 VF'er to be brighter and easier to focus due to higher contrast than my higher magnification M3. For low lighting my M6 is a better camera, but this does not allow me to say my M3 is rubbish.
I could also point out that a M6 has certain obvious advantages, but perhaps I'm wasting my time.
Cal
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Rob-F
Likes Leicas
No. The patch doesn't become black when you cover the window. It is superimposed on the viewfinder image. If you cover it, it just goes away.
"It" wasn't wrong. You were.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
A dot of gaffer or electrical tape is even more inexpensive. See the picture on my avatar. There is a rectangular piece of gaffer tape covering about the central 50% of the frameline illumination window. Works great.
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Platinum RF
Well-known
M6 does have the patch white out problem, some time M4 also (Not the M4-2)
t.s.k.
Hooked on philm
First, it's not a fair match to compare the M6 RF to the M3, arguably the best finder ever made.
The standard .72 M6 finder is actually very good. It just takes a bit getting used to.
The .85 finder on the other hand, is the true flare monster. Well at least to me.
Strangely I have an M2 with an early M4-P finder and find it much less flare prone than my late model M6. Perhaps there were some minor differences to account for this. Or maybe my brain just thinks I have an M2 finder with 28mm lines
The standard .72 M6 finder is actually very good. It just takes a bit getting used to.
The .85 finder on the other hand, is the true flare monster. Well at least to me.
Strangely I have an M2 with an early M4-P finder and find it much less flare prone than my late model M6. Perhaps there were some minor differences to account for this. Or maybe my brain just thinks I have an M2 finder with 28mm lines
bhop73
Well-known
I've experienced the white out issue, but it's really a 'non-issue'. Just move your eye a little to one side or the other and the patch comes back. Plus it's pretty rare for it to happen anyway. I sure haven't lost a shot because of it. Sure the earlier cameras are great, but I like having an internal meter.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
There's a big gap between those who've had it happen seldom, and not found it a problem, and those who've had it happen seldom, but often enough to matter.
A lot must depend on (a) what you shoot and (b) how you shoot it. I really doubt it's a question of either sample variation or personal tolerance.
Cheers,
R.
A lot must depend on (a) what you shoot and (b) how you shoot it. I really doubt it's a question of either sample variation or personal tolerance.
Cheers,
R.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
I live in NYC and shoot a lot under harsh lighting that made my M6 white out enough to be a serious problem. Some say the MP finder upgrade is not significant, but for me it has proven to be great. Under dim lighting I tend to place the rangefinder patch on the brightest area to get the contrast I need to focus, and this is when my patch would whiteout.
In comparing the M6 VF'er to a M3 VF'er I own both. The magnification on the M3 makes for fast focusing, but under dim lighting my M6 with MP finder upgrade is brighter and displays more contrast for easier focusing under those low lighting conditions.
Cal
Roger Hicks
Veteran
pb908
Well-known
First, it's not a fair match to compare the M6 RF to the M3, arguably the best finder ever made.
The standard .72 M6 finder is actually very good. It just takes a bit getting used to.
The .85 finder on the other hand, is the true flare monster. Well at least to me.
Strangely I have an M2 with an early M4-P finder and find it much less flare prone than my late model M6. Perhaps there were some minor differences to account for this. Or maybe my brain just thinks I have an M2 finder with 28mm lines
how about comparing m6 finder with hexar rf?
Looks like the copycat did better for this issue.
Being a dslr user, a great viewfinder is what i want. 100% view, 100% magnification, it's pleasure for my eye. Being a rf user, i expect the same pleasure as much as possible for the money i paid. For this reason, a leica m2 fits better than m6. i know this stuff is just a mater of preference, but try to put your eye off center in m2 finder, you get the rf patch still at the right place, not moving, zero flare, zero white out, ready for you. Really a tool that works for you, not you work for them
pb908
Well-known
No. The patch doesn't become black when you cover the window. It is superimposed on the viewfinder image. If you cover it, it just goes away.
"It" wasn't wrong. You were.
i was wrong for this matter