LEICA M7 has a CLOTH SHUTTER?

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And Karen Nakamura writes:
The M7 uses Leica's signature horizontal travelling cloth focal plane shutter. The shutter curtains travel at a relatively low speed, which results in the Leica's pitifully slow 1/50 second flash sync speed, unchanged from the 1930s. The cloth shutter is very susceptible to getting pinholes burned in it by an uncapped lens in bright sunlight. Despite all its failings, the Leica horizontal cloth shutter design has a couple of benefits....
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Hmmm,

Sometimes I really wonder why I bother here. Does it really matter what the things are made from? Just sounds to me like another reason to knock Leica which is fine as we're all entitled to our own views. If you don't like cloth, don't put your hard earned cash into an M. If you don't like Leica RFs, same answer. Simple.
 
Well, Fred, your cat looks exactly like mine (no kidding) but we have different opinions on cloth shutters.

As long as the lens cap is on, the lens won't act as a magnifying glass and burn a hole in the cloth shutter. So one just has to be careful, especially with an M7 investment. With a CL, it doesn't matter. :)
 
There are many choices. CV Bessa or the new Zeiss Ikon come to mind if you like manual focus and metal shutters. Else get a Contax G1/G2.

Buy what works for you. And don't worry if other folks prefer different tools.

Robert
 
All my cameras have metal shutters, except for one; and that would be the CL with a screwed-up shutter. ;)
 
Cloth Shutters are quieter than metal shutters. The Nikon SP's with titanium foil shutters are louder than the SP's with cloth shutters. The Canon VI-t is louder than the V-t. The shutters are all original. Metal shutters are less susceptible to damage from sunlight. They are more prone to dents and dings from the film leader hitting them.

Faster Sync speeds also produce more noise. Fire off a Nikon F, F2, and F3. The change from 1/60th sync on the F to a 1/80th sync on the F2 and F3 increased the noise level.

The best vertical travel shutter I've seen is the Honeycomb Titanium Foil shutter used for a limited time in the Nikon FE2 and FM2. Not quiet, but quieter than the later shutters running a 1/250th sync.

So if you want quiet with a focal plane shutter, slow sync and cloth. Or use a leaflet "compur" type shutter. The Retina IIIS is as quiet as an M3, has metal blades, and a 1/500th sync.
 
FrankS said:
Don't feed the...you know.
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I know it's not that easy to ignore the provocation of a certain kind of stupidity but if we ever could manage generally NOT to answer to such a crap it would save us a lot of trouble.

For a web forum in general ignoring such kinda contributions is the only way to keep it clean. If somebody cannot stand it he should answer with one word only: "IGNORED". :D

bertram
 
Yes, but the Honeycomb Titanium Foil vertical travel shutter in MY FE2 with 1/250th sync is better than the cost-cutting non-honeycomb metal vertical travel shutters used in their cameras.

(Apologies to Bertram, It's early and I made my two cups of coffee extra strong.

Of course Bertram has the real answer.)
 
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The best vertical travel shutter I've seen is the Honeycomb Titanium Foil shutter used for a limited time in the Nikon FE2 and FM2. Not quiet, but quieter than the later shutters running a 1/250th sync.
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That's one reason why I want to replace my FM2nT with an FM3a. The FM3a's shutter is more quiet...and that TTL flash feature and that auto exposure are also nice features---but then again, a Bessa R3A will come first. Not that I hate cloth shutters, but with my CL getting its shutter curtains adjusted 3 times with no luck, and being warned about how easily these curtains can burn, well, I do not want to drop more cash on a cloth shutter'd camera. I'm not rich, you know. ;)
 
Oops, I missed that. I didn't know Nikon FE2 and FM2's titanium shutter was that quiet compared with the newer aluminum version.
 
There is more to a RF camera than the material of its shutter. Build quality, viewfinder construction and RF base come to mind. Also, cloth shutters can be replaced by any tech worth his or her salt.

Brian's post holds true on the metal blind shutter of the Kiev, as well. It is really, really quiet at slow speeds and noticeably more audible at high speeds.
 
The cloth shutter is safer for us all: metal shutters expand with heat, so on warm weather they can cause your camera to explode, and if you are near a Chinese emissary and hurt him, they won't take it kindly, and third world war will start.

Please throw away all your Bessas, and Contax Gs and RD-1s or the world is doomed!

Only in cloth shutter we can find salvation.

Amen.
 
XXXGRAPENUTSXXX said:
H
Jorge Torralba.....Please accept my critique as my input and opinion......I am just stating that for the price of the Leica; It should have a metal shutter.

PLease don't remove my honest opinion......
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Jorge, you have my support for simply deleting this whole thread.

We're all guests of Jorge... he doesn't have to sponsor anyone's opinions.
 
My Ms are are 25-38 years old. I've never had a lens cap on any of my lenses. Never had a problem with burning a hole in my shutters, but then I've never put the cameras down facing up. That's what baseplates are for......

Cloth, metal?

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...................................
 
I can't believe this thread and that I read the whole thing. Incredible.
who really cares if someones camera has a cloth shutter? It's not like this is something new here. I vote for positive and helpful topics here and negative or bashing topics elsewhere.
Good morning all
Bill Barber
 
Yes, the vastly superior Nikon Honeycomb Titanium Foil Vertical travel shutter -60%lighter than previous materials- used a chemical etching process that had to be abandoned due to it's toxicity. Aluminum Alloy, previously rejected for use, was begrudgingly adopted as a replacement. The new material was over twice as heavy as the vastly superior honeycomb titanium foil, and obeying Thud's Law, as so eloguently stated by Proctor and Bergman, required more force to be pushed over and made a louder noise.

Leica, being much more environmentally friendly than Nikon, used safe and happy cloth which operates with lower force and contributes less to the green-house effect.
 
Here we go propagating the quietness myth again. Leicas are not quiet!, not in relation to my Yashica Minister or Mat 124G - neither of which has a cloth shutter. Before I bought into the Leica brand, I was hoping for an almost indistinguishable shutter click, alas it is not so. (not even close!) So please stop talking about Leicas being quiet. If Leica can't make a metal shutter that is just as quiet, then I'm still more than willing to sacrifice the "low" noise shutter for a one that is more practical.
 
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XXXGRAPENUTSXXX said:
Cloth Shutter? Certainly not something to brag about.
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Unless you're being forced to buy one against your will I wouldn't really worry about it.
Leicas are what they are ... if you don't like 'em, buy elsewhere.

Peter
 
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