lic4
Well-known
I can see why the M2, M3, M4, M5, M6 and MP have lasting power - all mechanical, many available parts. As for the M7, should we fear where Leica will be in 15 years? For instance, what if the M7 is discontinued in the next five years and suffers the same fate as the CLE? (specialized electronic parts that slowly diminish in supply, operational dependence on those very parts)
Or is it a camera that, perhaps like the CLE, is robust enough to avoid circuit failures, even 30 or 50 years after its production?
Or is it a camera that, perhaps like the CLE, is robust enough to avoid circuit failures, even 30 or 50 years after its production?
Ronald_H
Don't call me Ron
You have a point there. Electronics evolve so fast that components become obsolete very quickly. So at a certainpoint in time,, the supply of replacement parts will dry up. This of course also happens with non electronic parts, but these can generally be remanufactured.
Question is if the M7 will prove to be so reliable that it still works in 80 years, electronics included. I guess not.
As an avid user of old analogue cameras I definitely go for the all mechanical ones.
Question is if the M7 will prove to be so reliable that it still works in 80 years, electronics included. I guess not.
As an avid user of old analogue cameras I definitely go for the all mechanical ones.
mfogiel
Veteran
If you consider that a repair cost of anything at Solms starts with 150 EUR, then it is clear to me, that it will be no problem for Leica to get a replacement electronic solution for M7 at a staggering cost of 1 EUR from the Chinese anytime in the future.
peter_n
Veteran
I'm sure the parts will be there but the cost will be different. I like the mechanical film cameras too.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
I'm not worried about 15 or 50 yrs from now. I'm using the camera today!
The M7 is unbelievable and uber fast shooter. Best of all they're underpriced!! Photog doesnt have to be difficult -- with the M7 just point, focus, shoot.
The M7 is unbelievable and uber fast shooter. Best of all they're underpriced!! Photog doesnt have to be difficult -- with the M7 just point, focus, shoot.
RichardB
Well-known
Don't forget to add cell phones, PDA's, computers both desk and lap top along with a host of other digitally controlled products including the vehicle you drive.
Me, I've got two M7's and live in the present with my cell and other computers.-Dick
Me, I've got two M7's and live in the present with my cell and other computers.-Dick
lic4
Well-known
Yes, that's the going trend with electronics, but I can't say that I'm very happy about it.
I have an M7 that I'm becoming more attached to, and I like the thought of using it for years and years to come. Maybe what I need is a good therapist to tell me that change is ok... or that camera fetishism is not.
SteveM
Established
I've never owned an M7, but if I were to buy another Leica that's probably the one I would buy, and I wouldn't be worrying about the electronics. Sold my Canon A1 after 20 years and it still worked perfectly and that surely wasn't built like a Leica. I can't count how many PC's I've bought in the $3-5k range only to replace them after a few years. By comparison, maintenance of these fine cameras is cheap and based on using my Bronica RF645, AE is really nice at times.
Steve
Steve
Ronald_H
Don't call me Ron
I cannot live without my computer, but it is pretty tired after 4 years (sigh). However, this morning I picked up my first car at the garage. First car, as in, the first car I ever owned. It's got its "APK" (you have to have your old vehicle checked for roadworhtiness every 1/2 years here).
The vehicle is 39 years old. It's noisy, it pollutes, it doesn't even have a radio. But when I drive it I feel as happy as on the first day. Sometimes living in the past is not so bad. I own a Nikon D200 as my main rig, but I made more pics last year with my old gear and my M2 returned this morning with new light seals. It doesn't need to be rational.
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Tim Gray
Well-known
The funny thing is that the M7 has less automation and electronics than many other manual focus film cameras that are considered 'work horses'. I think people over estimate the amount of automation and electronics in the M7. It's got to be relatively simple in there. There's no shutter cocking motor, etc.
Also, with respect to electronics going obsolete, while there is truth to that, I seriously doubt the M7 uses any custom processors or any hard to find ICs. It's most likely all pretty standard components.
I'd be much more afraid that a Canon 1V would pack up and not be fixable in 15 years. Not that I'm going to lose any sleep over that either. I hope I'm still shooting in 15 years, and the film is still available, and that I can still get bulbs and paper for my enlarger, etc.
Also, with respect to electronics going obsolete, while there is truth to that, I seriously doubt the M7 uses any custom processors or any hard to find ICs. It's most likely all pretty standard components.
I'd be much more afraid that a Canon 1V would pack up and not be fixable in 15 years. Not that I'm going to lose any sleep over that either. I hope I'm still shooting in 15 years, and the film is still available, and that I can still get bulbs and paper for my enlarger, etc.
Beemermark
Veteran
Did the CLE have a high number of unrepairable circuit board failures? While the circuit board failure of the CLE is a frequent topic I've never heard of one failing, or at least one that was unrepairable. I'm sure it does happen but I can't believe it happens out of the norm. There are hundred of thousands of cameras with electronic circuit boards in existence, many over 30 years old, and failures seem to be rare. I can think of three cameras that exhibited circuit board problems that are normally unrepairable - The Olympus OM-2S, the Olympus OM-4 battery drain and Leica CL metering. The electronic failures of those 3 cameras seemed more related to poor design rather that age related failure of the electronic components.
I am a degreed professional Mechanical Engineer with 30+ years of experience. While not my field of expertise I do know a little about electronics. Electronic components are, or can be, as robust as mechanical components. Generally any circuit board can repaired. Cost and knowledge of the repair person are the only draw backs.
If my M7's last as long as my two CLE's I'll be long buried before an unrepairable problem develops.
Ronald M
Veteran
The fancy new Digi rangefinders will have the same limited like as a digi cams, batterys or lack of electronic component repairs. One reason why I will not buy one. Just look at the unrepairable DMR.
I consider my Nikon digis as consumables. However I bought a 1978 F2S Nikon slr last week. Not worried about it. Same as my 111c and 111F.
One car I own is a 1983 Oldsmobile stationwagon I inherited maybe 5 years ago. I can fix mechanical stuff, but if the electronics go, I am probably screwed. 27 years old,90,000 miles and it runs as new. I know because I had new ones and I drove this one when it was new.
I consider my Nikon digis as consumables. However I bought a 1978 F2S Nikon slr last week. Not worried about it. Same as my 111c and 111F.
One car I own is a 1983 Oldsmobile stationwagon I inherited maybe 5 years ago. I can fix mechanical stuff, but if the electronics go, I am probably screwed. 27 years old,90,000 miles and it runs as new. I know because I had new ones and I drove this one when it was new.
ItsReallyDarren
That's really me
If the built in lightmeter in the camera goes bad we say we can always use an external lightmeter. What happens when the electronics in the hand held meter goes bad? Sunny16?
Sounds like a bad reason to dump an electronic camera and rely on an electronic lightmeter to cover the bases.
Sounds like a bad reason to dump an electronic camera and rely on an electronic lightmeter to cover the bases.
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In the case of the CLE, not only was the camera discontinued, Minolta itself was discontinued too!
When the M7 is eventually discontinued, I think you can expect Leica to have parts available for some years afterward.
Stephen
When the M7 is eventually discontinued, I think you can expect Leica to have parts available for some years afterward.
Stephen
Ronald_H
Don't call me Ron
My Canonet GIII QL17 and Yashica Mat have usable light meters but use an obsolete battery. My Leica M2 doesn't have a light meter at all. A simple Gossen Digiflash, nasty as it might be, covers that. But these are in essence mechanical cameras, not electronic ones.
I am familiar with Sunny 16 and experienced enough to guesstimate light values. And I still think electronics are a problem in the long run. For many youngtimers parts for electronic ignition are becoming a problem, for example on the VW Vanagon I once owned.