Timmyjoe
Veteran
Want to run something past you all.
I've got a Leica M8.2 that I picked up used a couple of years ago. Back then, Leica was really working the digital camera customer service. I sent them the camera right after I got it because it had the dreaded red pixels/green line at high ISO issue, and they not only fixed it for no charge, but they also gave me a one year warranty, and threw in a couple of UV/IR Cut filters for my Leica glass.
I love the camera and have put around 15,000 shots on it so far. Have it set up for my liking with a grip, thumbs up and a diopter. Love the results. But when I'm on a job where I want to use the Leica (because of it's compact size and unobtrusiveness), I can't have my camera go down without a backup. And with the 1.3 crop factor on the M8.2, I don't really have a good back up. I like to travel with just a few lenses (35, 50, 90) and two bodies, but if I bring a film M as a back up to the M8.2, the focal lengths are all different. Was thinking about selling the M8.2 and investing in an M9/M9-P (but they are mostly gone now), and using a film M for a back up, at least the focal lengths would be the same. But the test shots I've done with an M9 and M9-P didn't work for me like the M8.2 shots.
A low mileage M8.2 just became available to me, and it's in great condition, but I am just wondering if investing a few grand in an M8.2 at this stage is wasting my money. I get the sense that Leica, now that Blackstone is involved, is not nearly as interested in supporting the older digital gear.
If anyone has thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them.
Thanks all.
__________________
Best,
-Tim
I've got a Leica M8.2 that I picked up used a couple of years ago. Back then, Leica was really working the digital camera customer service. I sent them the camera right after I got it because it had the dreaded red pixels/green line at high ISO issue, and they not only fixed it for no charge, but they also gave me a one year warranty, and threw in a couple of UV/IR Cut filters for my Leica glass.
I love the camera and have put around 15,000 shots on it so far. Have it set up for my liking with a grip, thumbs up and a diopter. Love the results. But when I'm on a job where I want to use the Leica (because of it's compact size and unobtrusiveness), I can't have my camera go down without a backup. And with the 1.3 crop factor on the M8.2, I don't really have a good back up. I like to travel with just a few lenses (35, 50, 90) and two bodies, but if I bring a film M as a back up to the M8.2, the focal lengths are all different. Was thinking about selling the M8.2 and investing in an M9/M9-P (but they are mostly gone now), and using a film M for a back up, at least the focal lengths would be the same. But the test shots I've done with an M9 and M9-P didn't work for me like the M8.2 shots.
A low mileage M8.2 just became available to me, and it's in great condition, but I am just wondering if investing a few grand in an M8.2 at this stage is wasting my money. I get the sense that Leica, now that Blackstone is involved, is not nearly as interested in supporting the older digital gear.
If anyone has thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them.
Thanks all.
__________________
Best,
-Tim
seanbonner
Established
Ignoring the "leica" aspect of this for a moment, digital cameras will - over time - always be less supported and decrease in value. Always. If you add back in the "leica" aspect then some small value may be maintained thanks to a collector market, but that won't help the support.
If you were talking about something you just use for personal purposes and happen to like the 8.2 then there's no reason to stop that, but for professional use and longest lifespan, you should get whatever the newest version is in your price range. M9's are a steal on ebay right now thanks to the M9P and M releases.
If you were talking about something you just use for personal purposes and happen to like the 8.2 then there's no reason to stop that, but for professional use and longest lifespan, you should get whatever the newest version is in your price range. M9's are a steal on ebay right now thanks to the M9P and M releases.
Timmyjoe
Veteran
Thanks for the response Sean.
I've ruled out the M9/M9-P because I was disappointed in the image quality when compared to the M8.2, especially when converted to B&W. I think the thing I am wrestling with now is whether investing more in the M8.2 package is money well spent, or throwing good money after bad. I would take the M8.2 on more jobs if I had a back up body that I could trust.
Best,
-Tim
I've ruled out the M9/M9-P because I was disappointed in the image quality when compared to the M8.2, especially when converted to B&W. I think the thing I am wrestling with now is whether investing more in the M8.2 package is money well spent, or throwing good money after bad. I would take the M8.2 on more jobs if I had a back up body that I could trust.
Best,
-Tim
Robert Lai
Well-known
Look at the business economics
Look at the business economics
Digital cameras are portable computers.
You seem to be asking if you should buy another Intel 486 CPU computer. There is no "investment" value at all. The depreciation is steadfast. Look at the Nikon D2X thread that is also popular at the moment.
If you can get enough professional use out of another M8 camera to make it pay, then it's worth it. These digital cameras at this point are just there for you to use until they wear out, then discard. You're in this business to make money, not collect gear as we amateurs do
.
Look at the business economics
Digital cameras are portable computers.
You seem to be asking if you should buy another Intel 486 CPU computer. There is no "investment" value at all. The depreciation is steadfast. Look at the Nikon D2X thread that is also popular at the moment.
If you can get enough professional use out of another M8 camera to make it pay, then it's worth it. These digital cameras at this point are just there for you to use until they wear out, then discard. You're in this business to make money, not collect gear as we amateurs do
.
Timmyjoe
Veteran
Thanks Robert, appreciate your reply.
I guess my concern is whether I could get, let's say four years, out of the cameras. At my current rate of usage that would be 60,000 images, which would definitely make it worth the investment.
I am mainly concerned that Leica is going to scale way back or maybe stop servicing the M8 cameras all together in the next few years, and I would hate to have a few thousand dollar boat anchor in the next couple of years that I couldn't get repaired.
Best,
-Tim
I guess my concern is whether I could get, let's say four years, out of the cameras. At my current rate of usage that would be 60,000 images, which would definitely make it worth the investment.
I am mainly concerned that Leica is going to scale way back or maybe stop servicing the M8 cameras all together in the next few years, and I would hate to have a few thousand dollar boat anchor in the next couple of years that I couldn't get repaired.
Best,
-Tim
seanbonner
Established
I've seen repeated mention to Leica no longer servicing the sensors on M8/M8.2 already, and frequent cracking of them - so I don't know that it's a question of something happening in the future - I think it's a reality now. If you buy an M8.2 you are on your own with it and it might work perfectly for you for many years down the line, but should something happen you'd be a bit on your own to deal with it.
If you want to use film M as your backup and keep same focal length, and focus is on b/w - maybe consider the M Monochrom?
If you want to use film M as your backup and keep same focal length, and focus is on b/w - maybe consider the M Monochrom?
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Cameras are not an investment. They're tools to do a job. If a particular tool works for you, get it and get the job done. If not, buy something else that gets your job done.
I considered the M8.2 when I was looking to buy a digital M. It would have saved a couple thousand dollars. But I wanted the 35mm sized sensor so I'd have the same FoV/DoF choices as with my M4-2.
How the color or B&W looks is all a matter of rendering. I never bother to even look at the JPEGs the Leica can make, I work exclusively with the raw files, and the M9's raw files are excellent quality.
G
I considered the M8.2 when I was looking to buy a digital M. It would have saved a couple thousand dollars. But I wanted the 35mm sized sensor so I'd have the same FoV/DoF choices as with my M4-2.
How the color or B&W looks is all a matter of rendering. I never bother to even look at the JPEGs the Leica can make, I work exclusively with the raw files, and the M9's raw files are excellent quality.
G
thegman
Veteran
I'm going to agree with everyone else, no digital camera is an investment. Film ones *can* be, but often it's just "not lost too much value" rather than gained value. Will you get 4 more years out of an M8? You might. You may just get one year, you may get 10.
I'd say get the camera you want, and hope for the best. Get one with a warranty, and perhaps talk to a Leica dealer about extended warranties etc. if it bothers you. I think though, for better or worse, when it comes to reliability of many cameras, you're relying on luck. You see many here with stories about Leicas which were a bundle of problems, and some which serve faultlessly out of the box for years. I think it's just luck really.
I'd say get the camera you want, and hope for the best. Get one with a warranty, and perhaps talk to a Leica dealer about extended warranties etc. if it bothers you. I think though, for better or worse, when it comes to reliability of many cameras, you're relying on luck. You see many here with stories about Leicas which were a bundle of problems, and some which serve faultlessly out of the box for years. I think it's just luck really.
Fraser
Well-known
Depends what kind of photography you are doing if its a 'a backup' why does it need to be the same kind of camera, buy a nikon d200 and a 35mm lens for a couple of hundred quid and leave it in the car.
Where did you hear this?
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Codswallop. Point out one instance please.
dabick42
Well-known
Well said, Fraser !
The most sensible suggestion by far.
Why spend megabucks on a backup that might never need to be used in anger ?
The OP's M8.2 could last another decade without fault, by which time all present digital cameras will be virtually worthless curiosities anyway...
The most sensible suggestion by far.
Why spend megabucks on a backup that might never need to be used in anger ?
The OP's M8.2 could last another decade without fault, by which time all present digital cameras will be virtually worthless curiosities anyway...
Roger Hicks
Veteran
How big a problem is the bigger area of a film Leica? It's a back-up, which, as others have said, you may never use. So why not buy a film Leica?
Incidentally, this isn't just empty opinion. It's what I did. And now the M8.2 is the digi back up to the M9, even though the lenses have different fields of view. It's a BACKUP!
Cheers,
R.
Incidentally, this isn't just empty opinion. It's what I did. And now the M8.2 is the digi back up to the M9, even though the lenses have different fields of view. It's a BACKUP!
Cheers,
R.
IEDEI
Well-known
false. that is misinformation. (A) they are not "frequently cracking" and (B) Leica are still servicing them.
theno23
Established
Then just crop? It's exactly the same sensor tech (same process, same pixel density), but the M9 sensor is physically larger.
As others have said, the M8 sensor is no longer made, so if it fails you're stuck. If it was me, I'd get a M9(p), or ME as backup and crop if you want the M8 look - as far as I know the only downside is that M9's and ME's don't have sapphire glass, but M9P's do - the M8.1 has a faster shutter though, IIRC? Arguably UV/IR sensitivity, if you make use of that?
There's also the MM, which is presumably much better for pure B&W work, but that won't have the same look as the M8.2, and requires physical filters to tweak the colour response.
- Steve
Is this fact or internet fiction? I've heard the LCD is the only thing Leica cannot service anymore.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Simply not true. This thread seems to be a hotbed of false rumourmongering.
NotoriousVIC
Newbie
"Investment"? I think President Obama is on RFF!
umcelinho
Marcelo
cameras are not investments.
seanbonner
Established
I bought an MM after talking to many shops and dealers, and I heavily considered the M8. I decided against based on what I was told.
- I was told at the Leica Shop in Vienna that they are not buying used M8s right now because sensor, lcd and some other parts are no longer being made and so they are flooded with cameras with cracked sensors that are too expensive to repair.
- The next day I went to the new Vienna Leica Store and asked the guy there about what I'd heard and he said bluntly "I don't know how much longer Leica will be offering service for the M8, it's discontinued at this point"
- Steve's Camera in LA said directly "do not buy an M8, you won't be able to have any problems with it fixed in the near future"
- Map Camera in Shinjuku told me they are always looking for M8s to buy, but only ones without cracked sensors which is common, and unrepairable.
Maybe this is all misinformation and "random guys" on the internet know better, but since no one in this thread is offering to repair cameras or buy old models, I put a little more stake in what I'm told at stores by people who deal with these every day. What I've been told, repeatedly, is that M8s have issues that can not be repaired and Leica has not committed to servicing them indefinitely. YMMV.
- I was told at the Leica Shop in Vienna that they are not buying used M8s right now because sensor, lcd and some other parts are no longer being made and so they are flooded with cameras with cracked sensors that are too expensive to repair.
- The next day I went to the new Vienna Leica Store and asked the guy there about what I'd heard and he said bluntly "I don't know how much longer Leica will be offering service for the M8, it's discontinued at this point"
- Steve's Camera in LA said directly "do not buy an M8, you won't be able to have any problems with it fixed in the near future"
- Map Camera in Shinjuku told me they are always looking for M8s to buy, but only ones without cracked sensors which is common, and unrepairable.
Maybe this is all misinformation and "random guys" on the internet know better, but since no one in this thread is offering to repair cameras or buy old models, I put a little more stake in what I'm told at stores by people who deal with these every day. What I've been told, repeatedly, is that M8s have issues that can not be repaired and Leica has not committed to servicing them indefinitely. YMMV.