ian_watts
Ian Watts
Who knows? To provide another perspective, three of the four M bodies I bought in 2011-2012 have required lengthy service trips to Leica.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
One thing that I really don't like about Leica is their ability to gouge users for re-badged Oly viewfinders with the word Leica on them. Seriously ... they must mark these things up by around four hundred percent + judging by what I can get the Oly version for retail?
When I think about this ... maybe they deserve their current malaise!
When I think about this ... maybe they deserve their current malaise!
Michael Markey
Veteran
So if Leica announced that they have developed a reliable (totally) replacement sensor for the M9 and ME and will fit it free of charge to any camera irrespective of age or shutter count ... would you be interested?
Just dreaming here! LOL
Yes ... no problem but I don`t think that retired public servants like me are their core business.
I`m more of a fan boy than a basher I just don`t buy into the current Saint Leica narrative .
They did what I would expect a company to do ...they tried to protect their shareholders first and foremost and only agreed the present fall back position after they reconsidered the customer reaction.
Seems sensible to me but I doubt if any largesse was involved.
We are still lacking a long term solution as far as a permanent fix for the CCD sensor.
What they`ve done is taken the heat out of the problem until they can decide on a longer term strategy
My guess is that it will be an trade in /upgrade path but that they still need to figure out how they keep their dealers on board and manage existing stock.
MCTuomey
Veteran
Thanks Michael!
Jon, thanks for the kind words. My posts to the contrary, I like the exchange here - lots of good takes on the problem and, more importantly, how folks are dealing with it: stay or go, alt platforms for M lenses, "back" to film, and so on.
Dan, I'll raise a pint of newcy anytime
.
willie_901
Veteran
There have not been many (if any) snarky, mean comments about Leica in either M9 sensor thread.
I don't see how stating one no longer respects or has confidence in Leica is bashing. Neither is stating an opinion about Leica's new product price-to-value ratio.
Some members had frustrating experiences while others did not. Stating the facts about what happened is neither bashing or fan-boyism. Some members don't feel digital Leicas are worth owning and others very much enjoy their digital Leicas.
Accusing Leica's critics of envy is an obvious straw-man argument.
I am pleased fellow RFF members who purchased a Leica M9s were not abandoned.
I don't see how stating one no longer respects or has confidence in Leica is bashing. Neither is stating an opinion about Leica's new product price-to-value ratio.
Some members had frustrating experiences while others did not. Stating the facts about what happened is neither bashing or fan-boyism. Some members don't feel digital Leicas are worth owning and others very much enjoy their digital Leicas.
Accusing Leica's critics of envy is an obvious straw-man argument.
I am pleased fellow RFF members who purchased a Leica M9s were not abandoned.
MCTuomey
Veteran
+1 Big yum on 2 counts, beer and negatives. Sounds like the title of a new forum to me. Head Bartender?
georg16nik
Member
Leica M9 FF-CCD corrosion - A most satisfactory conclusion ???
Satisfactory for Leica, perhaps...
Suppose you wait a few months for sensor replacement.. and from what it seems, a second or third replacement is warranted since Leica is silent if the sensor transplant uses a new filter or its just rinse and repeat of the “original” formulation.
Who and how will replace your wasted time?
How is that satisfactory if you are not Leica?
Satisfactory for Leica, perhaps...
Suppose you wait a few months for sensor replacement.. and from what it seems, a second or third replacement is warranted since Leica is silent if the sensor transplant uses a new filter or its just rinse and repeat of the “original” formulation.
Who and how will replace your wasted time?
How is that satisfactory if you are not Leica?
uhoh7
Veteran
So if Leica announced that they have developed a reliable (totally) replacement sensor for the M9 and ME and will fit it free of charge to any camera irrespective of age or shutter count ... would you be interested?
Just dreaming here! LOL
In the statement they imply that is exactly what they plan to do. Why not? Does anyone think it is impossible? Leica has been replacing sensors free of charge to second owners with 2009 and newer machines for years. Ask Raid. Yes, there was this silly post which implied they would think twice about it, which was partly the cause of the furor, and of course we know it's not only a few camera effected, but quite a few, or maybe all eventually. But now they tell us they will stand behind the sensor regardless of the body's history, which is unprecedented, to my knowledge.
Some pros have had bodies spend a lot of time with Leica. But many other M9s have done ruthless frontline pro duty in every environment, including Iraq and Afghanistan. The sense of entitlement to perfection with some posters in this thread is remarkable. Throughout the history of industrial design, cutting edge products very often have reliability issues. Sometimes we buy a Lemon, and sometimes, as in this case the flaw is systematic. Does anyone think Leica intentionally produced a flawed product? What more at this point do actual M9 and MM owners expect from Leica?
For myself with a fully operational M9 in use every day, I do expect them to solve the issue, and I would like to see a faster turn around time. But the problem does not develop without warning, so at least with this issue you can plan when to send it in. I don't believe in brand loyalty, period. I just try to find the best machine I can afford, and I hope it won't leave me in the lurch. I have often had to send Sonys in for flaws, and I can tell you, one day past a year, too bad. I had a PD170 with a known sensor issue, but missed the recall date: 650USD. My first little Nex-5 spent three months with them waiting on parts.
Maybe those big monster DSLRs and their ugly zooms are way more reliable. It doesn't much matter to me, as I'm not interested. Today the M9 is what I like and what I own. I'm going to keep it as long as I can. If they get cheap enough I might buy a second.
Leica is neither saint not devil, as the world is not black and white, MM nonwithstanding LOL
Huss
Veteran
So I had the sensor to my M-E replaced this January 2014.
Today I checked it for 'corrosion'. Shot it into the sky at f16.
Yup, amongst the regular dust spots, there was one corrosion spot. The tell tale semi transparent ring around the darker center.
The new sensor lasted less than a year before it corroded. I live in dry Southern California.
It was never wet cleaned.
It took 4 months for the last repair.
I'm going to keep using it until it gets much worse, because I'm not going to send it in until the new sensor design is available.
(takes a deep breath, looks lovingly at my M3 that gets a new sensor with each shot..)
Today I checked it for 'corrosion'. Shot it into the sky at f16.
Yup, amongst the regular dust spots, there was one corrosion spot. The tell tale semi transparent ring around the darker center.
The new sensor lasted less than a year before it corroded. I live in dry Southern California.
It was never wet cleaned.
It took 4 months for the last repair.
I'm going to keep using it until it gets much worse, because I'm not going to send it in until the new sensor design is available.
(takes a deep breath, looks lovingly at my M3 that gets a new sensor with each shot..)
I sold my M9 immediately after taking delivery of the M240 a year ago, and got a lot more for it then than it would fetch now. Am I pleased to be out from under the cloud of concern? I admit so.
But by way of comparison I'm facing a similar matter with my Pentax K-3, their top-of-the-line dSLR with 24Mpx and no moire filter. Under some poorly understood circumstances it appears the whole production up to fairly recently had an "issue" with shutter "over-run"... that is, the shutter will activate and recock continuously stopped only by removing the battery. This has happened to mine once.
Similarly to the M9 sensor corrosion matter, this caused a lot of turmoil and criticism in the Pentax community, especially as Pentax was very slow in arriving at a fix.... available only within the warranty period it seems. I got mine last May, so I have until this May to send it in. But fix is cheap, apparently just re-flashing a PROM chip, nothing like replacing an expensive sensor assembly.
In the meantime there was a new firmware which can halt the over-run when it happens but with the loss of the picture just shot, not recorded.
Just to point out a comparative example from another maker, not at all sure it will make anyone here feel any better about the M9 situation! It does appear that Leica has committed to a more extensive longer-term service.
But by way of comparison I'm facing a similar matter with my Pentax K-3, their top-of-the-line dSLR with 24Mpx and no moire filter. Under some poorly understood circumstances it appears the whole production up to fairly recently had an "issue" with shutter "over-run"... that is, the shutter will activate and recock continuously stopped only by removing the battery. This has happened to mine once.
Similarly to the M9 sensor corrosion matter, this caused a lot of turmoil and criticism in the Pentax community, especially as Pentax was very slow in arriving at a fix.... available only within the warranty period it seems. I got mine last May, so I have until this May to send it in. But fix is cheap, apparently just re-flashing a PROM chip, nothing like replacing an expensive sensor assembly.
In the meantime there was a new firmware which can halt the over-run when it happens but with the loss of the picture just shot, not recorded.
Just to point out a comparative example from another maker, not at all sure it will make anyone here feel any better about the M9 situation! It does appear that Leica has committed to a more extensive longer-term service.
Richard G
Veteran
Here's a shot at ten to six. If it's really ten to midnight with your M9 / ME or Monochrom, better get out and shoot with it.
Melbourne GPO tower
Melbourne GPO tower
Davo
Member
I'm going to throw in an example of another (small) player in the camera world (small by comparison to Sony, Pan, Nikon, Canon etc): Arca Swiss.
European, high end, small market etc...
They manufactured a series of excellent ballheads quite some time ago - the B1, B2 and B1G - long gone now. A certain run of them had a defective part in them making the action less than smooth. A recall was made many many many years ago.
Well I bought a 2nd hand B2 a few weeks back... action a bit stiff... sent it to the American service centre for a service/clean. Turns out the defective part was in it.
SERVICE, PARTS/LABOUR AND RETURN SHIPPING ALL FREE (and shipping would have been to Australia for a few kilograms of metal and packing!). But as I'm now living in Myanmar and the postal system here is questionable we needed to use a courier service (read: $$$$$$$$).
Arca happily ponied up 50% of the courier fee.
The work was completed in a few days.
WORLD CLASS from a small 'boutique' precision manufacturer of high priced photographic goods... I understand that not many comparisons can be drawn...
European, high end, small market etc...
They manufactured a series of excellent ballheads quite some time ago - the B1, B2 and B1G - long gone now. A certain run of them had a defective part in them making the action less than smooth. A recall was made many many many years ago.
Well I bought a 2nd hand B2 a few weeks back... action a bit stiff... sent it to the American service centre for a service/clean. Turns out the defective part was in it.
SERVICE, PARTS/LABOUR AND RETURN SHIPPING ALL FREE (and shipping would have been to Australia for a few kilograms of metal and packing!). But as I'm now living in Myanmar and the postal system here is questionable we needed to use a courier service (read: $$$$$$$$).
Arca happily ponied up 50% of the courier fee.
The work was completed in a few days.
WORLD CLASS from a small 'boutique' precision manufacturer of high priced photographic goods... I understand that not many comparisons can be drawn...
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Not very wrong. If you want an obsolescent crop-sensor low-megapixel RF which may or may not be reparable, of course you can buy an Epson. The big question is why you might want to. Yes, it's very pretty. That's about it. "Still going strong" is something of an exaggeration. If you want a full-frame camera in current production, Leica is the only game in town.
Cheers,
R.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Please, please promise us in England and The North that you'll never mention the price you pay for a pint because we've had enough shocks seeing the difference in price of cameras, software, computers and so on.
Regards, David
MCTuomey
Veteran
I will only say that the price in my neighborhood precludes making Newcy my regular beer. Hope that helps, David
. And by the way, may Newcastle FC continue to be that large thorn in Chelsea's side ...
David Hughes
David Hughes
Amazing
Amazing
Just the mention of a pint of Newcastle's Brown and peace is restored on the forum...
Perhaps Leica should give a pint away with every M8 & M9 they sell or repair.
Regards, david
Amazing
Just the mention of a pint of Newcastle's Brown and peace is restored on the forum...
Perhaps Leica should give a pint away with every M8 & M9 they sell or repair.
Regards, david
daveleo
what?
Just the mention of a pint of Newcastle's Brown and peace is restored on the forum...
Perhaps Leica should give a pint away with every M8 & M9 they sell or repair.
Regards, david
I discovered Newcastle a year ago, served it at a party and now I MUST serve it because people LOVE it !
Huss
Veteran
I buy it from my local Costco by the case. After a few my photos seem to lack clarity and sharpness. Is that something I should mention to Leica when I get the new sensor fitted?
Pioneer
Veteran
Good conversations and a good pint of ale. They just belong together.
The discussions can get a bit spirited here, but it settles back down eventually. It is either that or we get bounced out on our butt.
The discussions can get a bit spirited here, but it settles back down eventually. It is either that or we get bounced out on our butt.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
I hope we all realize that we all are a little crazy, RFF is kinda my support group, and we all are friends.
"Maggie" my girl doesn't like it when I talk about cameras. LOL.
Sorry if I ruffled any feathers in the flock.
Cal
"Maggie" my girl doesn't like it when I talk about cameras. LOL.
Sorry if I ruffled any feathers in the flock.
Cal