Leica Monochrom vs. Sony A7R 35 & 50mm Resolution

[Turtle]

This comparison still seems to be current, purely from a 'what can a 18MP Bayer free CCD sensor do compared to a CMOS 36MP colour one'. There are many reasons why a person might want to shoot a Leica MM aside from resolution, so lets not get into that, but the results might be of interest to some of you. The outcome essentially mirrors the opinions I had formed from shooting various images on each over the last year, while I've owned both.

The MM remains quite astounding.

http://thephotofundamentalist.com/?p=1938

 

[Dektol Dan]

Where is the Point of Diminishing Returns?

Where is the Point of Diminishing Returns?

Not mentioned in that that I read.
It's found in file size.

Even though I own and love a Monochrome, and that it's pixelation approaches the look film grain (also not discussed), my first choice for shooting digital is still my old Canon 5D.

Anything over 12MP makes for file sizes too big to handle conveniently. I want a camera that can save to JPG and still looks good. I don't like the idea of having to always slavishly post process in Lightroom or some other app.

Although I have a nice printer, 95% of all my shots, including film which I still shoot, are reviewed on a monitor.

I still believe 8MP is enough, and that the older and smaller quality sensors have better color rendition.

 

[YYV_146]

Not mentioned in that that I read.
It's found in file size.

Even though I own and love a Monochrome, and that it's pixelation approaches the look film grain (also not discussed), my first choice for shooting digital is still my old Canon 5D.

Anything over 12MP makes for file sizes too big to handle conveniently. I want a camera that can save to JPG and still looks good. I don't like the idea of having to always slavishly post process in Lightroom or some other app.

Although I have a nice printer, 95% of all my shots, including film which I still shoot, are reviewed on a monitor.

I still believe 8MP is enough, and that the older and smaller quality sensors have better color rendition.

Processing is a part of the digital imaging life. You might not like it, but you'll need it to get good shots. Chemical darkroom is much more laborious and error-prone, and perhaps only slightly less necessary for print output.

8MP is enough for now, but with screens like the new 5k iMac, I'm not sure for how long. The best commercial monitors currently available need 12MP to fill the entire screen.

 

[jaapv]

It is not really about resolution. There are more important considerations, like lack of optical aberrations by the Bayer filter and interpolation artefacts.

 

[Turtle]

These things are important, for sure, but resolution remains important all the same, if one's goal is large prints that will be viewed close up. For street shooting, I have no personal need for more than 12-16 MP.

The lack of artefacts from the MM sensor makes the images a pleasures to process and view, but lots of pixels also help in this regard. Something also not often mentioned is the sheer repeatability of the excellence you get with the MM and Leica lenses. Whatever the distance and aperture, they deliver. One sometimes gets thrown curve balls by the 35mm Sonnar on the A7R and adapted lenses are another level altogether. This said, the 55mm on the Sony bodies is utterly brilliant all the time. It is a marvel of a lens IMHO.

It is not really about resolution. There are more important considerations, like lack of optical aberrations by the Bayer filter and interpolation artefacts.

 

[thompsonks]

I reached the same conclusion with MATE @ 28mm on MM and A7r bodies. Resolution was a draw in 17x22" prints. With the same lens and fairly contrasty light, shadow and highlight detail could be matched easily in PS. The only perceptible difference was a slightly different distribution of tones. This could be more closely matched by using the color conversion sliders on the Sony files. Neither was 'right' and the other 'wrong.'

I've been happy with my MM, even if its price was silly. But today I cleaned an M9-P sensor for a friend and found it badly corroded. I plan to part with my MM before that can happen to it. As soon as there's a hi-res Sony model with a stable shutter, I'll be switching.

Kirk

 

[Turtle]

I hoping corrosion does not blight mine, but if it does I would consider an upgrade. Upgrading is not something I'd be considering otherwise.

Still tempted to take mine to Iceland in May.

 

[Dektol Dan]

It's Lens Choice

It's Lens Choice

The other issue I saw was that the comparison did not share common lenses.

My favorite glass these days is either old/classic or new versions of old. I like the Zeiss Distagons and Biogons which hail from '52-3.

The Planar used in the test is a design far older than that.

Quite frankly I thought the Mono had better images than the Sony, but then, for a digital camera I look for detail in shadows, and resistance to wash out in highlights.

There are already a number of posts that are four years old+ that discuss how the M9 sensor was modified for black and white. In those discussions it was pointed out that the Mono had the performance of a sensor in the 30+ MP range.

It was brought up in this thread that computer processing still isn't as laborious as the darkroom's fare. Maybe it would be more realistic to say that scanning film is just as labor intensive as processing both the large file digital and darkroom work.

Having worked in my father's darkroom from the time before I was 10 years old and into my 30's (when I acquired a film scanner), I would still argue that for black and white photography, the darkroom equals the fiddle-faddle of computer processing.

The dark room only is bettered by the computer because it doesn't smell so godawful, and and that the work is conducted in a small dank/dark space.

Small file digital is a snap!

 

[jaapv]

These things are important, for sure, but resolution remains important all the same, if one's goal is large prints that will be viewed close up. For street shooting, I have no personal need for more than 12-16 MP.

The lack of artefacts from the MM sensor makes the images a pleasures to process and view, but lots of pixels also help in this regard. Something also not often mentioned is the sheer repeatability of the excellence you get with the MM and Leica lenses. Whatever the distance and aperture, they deliver. One sometimes gets thrown curve balls by the 35mm Sonnar on the A7R and adapted lenses are another level altogether. This said, the 55mm on the Sony bodies is utterly brilliant all the time. It is a marvel of a lens IMHO.

How many billboards viewed from close up do 99% of users shoot in a lifetime, especially with a camera like the Monochrom?
I would venture zero.

A pro commissioned with such a project will surely use a medium format digital back.

I could get excellent prints done at A2 from the M8, even viewed close up. This megapixel mania is driven by clever marketing only.

 

[Alberti]

Anything over 12MP makes for file sizes too big to handle conveniently. I want a camera that can save to JPG and still looks good.

Who's afraid of direct-JPG? My M I have set JPG-fine formula to sharpness low, contrast medium low, medium high saturation and I this way get astounding files.

Note that these are still large in size (around 15 Mb) so not as comfortable as the direct M8 JPG files (3-5 Mb). Probably selecting 12MP base resolution would give 5 Mb too, and still be still printable to 30*40 cm without a problem. I just have not tried that. The M8 files are very good, I remember well.

 

[Daniel Teoli Jr.]

Well, the Sony is no MM. Even if it is / was sharper it has no easy to access manual controls.

 

[MCTuomey]

Tom, you remind me that it really is all about the glass, not the camera/sensor.

 

[jaapv]

Coming to that, I find that one of the best lenses I own for my Monochrom is a 1954 Canon 1.8/50. It certainly is not that good on my M9, even with B&W conversion. So it all comes down to the combination of lens and sensor hitting the sweet spot.

 

[thompsonks]

Same experience with MM & LTM 1.4 Nikkor of that vintage. You can shoot the old lenses in the brightest sunlight and still retain shadow and highlight detail.

Kirk

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