Leica MP + Biogon 25mm f/2.8 T* ZM without external viewfinder, Help!

[Michaelta]

Hello,
I'm pondering the possibility of purchasing a Zeiss 25mm f/2.8 Biogon T* ZM Lens to combine with Leica MP. However, wouldn't like to use external viewfinder.

I wonder whether anybody may share his experience with the following subjects:
1. Which frameline the lens bring up when inserted?
2. Is the lens insertion fits perfectly with the camera body?
3. How much is doable to make a good use out of this 25mm lens combined to the Leica MP (0.72) body with 28mm frameline, without external viewfinder?

Thanks, Michael

 

[waileong]

You should do a search.

 

[sepiareverb]

The 25 is wider than the .72 VF by a good bit. Think 2 steps backwards or so. ZM VF is very, very good, as is the Leica 21/24/28. No experience with the CV 25 VF, but the CV 40 is very nice indeed.

 

[swoop]

Why are you opposed to an external viewfinder? If framing is important to you, you'll need one. As the 25 is pretty damn wide. I have one and use it with a CV 25mm finder. It was only $120 or so. Not as expensive as the actual Zeiss model.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

Like swoop, I used a 25mm ZM with the CV finder.

This lens brings up the 28mm framelines; any cursory look at the ZM 28/25 finder reveals these framelines are very close together. Therefore, you should be able to look beyond the 28mm framelines in your MP and be able to approximate the 25mm POV. However, like it or not, if you wear glasses, you'll have to suck it up and use an accessory finder.

 

[Tom A]

On the 0.72 finder of the MP you are pushing it, using the 25mm without external finder. IF you use the inside of the viewfinder window as a limit you can do it, but it is not very precise. If you wear glasses, forget it, you can barely see the 28 frames! I have been using the 25's on my MP 0.58 and that works better.
The 25/28 finder from Zeiss is expensive, but for once (when it comes to finders) you get value for money. They are incredibly bright and solid!
The Leica 21/24/28 is not very good. At 24 it is OK, but once you turn it to either 21 or 28 it is rather miserable. It is also large and clumsy. I tried to get along with it for years, but in the end I donated it to a friend. His rational for keeping it now is that it was free and that makes it palatable!
The 25/2.8 is such a good lens that it almost deserves the proper finder! I keep a M2 with that lens on it and the finder as my "medium" wide camera. It is always loaded with Tri X and I can grab it at a moments notice. If you pair it with a 50mm you have a nice little "walk about" package.

 

[Michaelta]

Thanks to All for your replies,

Based on the valuable information accumulated from your kind replies one may conclude the following:

- "This lens brings up the 28mm framelines" (BillBlackwell).

- Apparently, it would be possible to achieve a reliable approximation using 25mm lens with 28mm framelines on Leica MP's body having 0.72 viewfinder magnification without an external viewfinder. The relatively small angular difference between 28mm and 25mm lenses - 76° Vs. 82° respectively enable a sort of calculated guess although an external viewfinder would induce obvious better results (Swoop & Tom A).

- The Biogon 25mm bayonet mechanical compatibility to Leica MP wasn't specifically addressed in the replies. Tom A's comment on this topic will be highly appreciated.

Thanks again, Michael

 

[Hephaestus]

Hi Michael,

I have a ZM 25mm mounted on my M6 (0.72x viewfinder) right now. Functionally, this is the same combination as your MP as the mount is the same and the field of view from the viewfinder is the same.

1. The lens brings up the 28mm frameline.

2. This is an M mount lens, so it fits perfectly on M mount cameras.

3. I find that the 25mm captures a good bit more than the 28mm framelines estimate. I chose the 25mm Zeiss lens because I thought I could use the entire area of the viewfinder (beyond the 28mm lines, right to the frame of the viewfinder) to estimate coverage. Having tried this, I find it only partly successful. If I'm doing street photography, or I'm trying to capture something really quickly and without careful framing, I just get what I want in the viewfinder and take the picture. I generally end up with more than I want and so I crop the image I want in post-production. I also tried buying a 0.85x screw in reducer (found on ebay) and I find this particular item to be completely useless. I can comfortably see no more of the viewfinder area with the reducer installed than I can see with my naked eye (I do not wear glasses, though). The great virtue of a rangefinder, I feel, is that one can see more than the lens' coverage area with the viewfinder. This allows one to better anticipate the shot, I think. Using the entire viewfinder area to estimate the 25mm lens coverage completely removes this advantage.

I would personally not recommend shooting the ZM 25mm by using just the 0.72x viewfinder. Because I am not satisfied with this, I am torn between the following options.

a. Selling the ZM 25mm and getting either a 28mm that I can use without an external viewfinder.

b. Keeping the ZM 25mm and buying the Zeiss external viewfinder.


c. Keeping the ZM 25mm and buying a Leica with a 0.58mm viewfinder or a Bessa R4M with the wide-angle viewfinder.

Regards,
Ryan

 

[Rob-F]

When I use a 24mm Elmarit on my M6 0.58, I'm able to frame fairly well without an external finder. Used in this way, I can estimate where the edges of the frame will fall. I've done an experiment to see how accurately I can place the frame edges, looking out toward the left and right finder edges while keeping notes on what I thought I was lined up on. I found that I could not achieve reliable accurate framing in this way, but on an approximate basis it works rather well. With the 25mm I believe it will be even a bit easier.

But the original question was about using a .72 finder. When I use the 24mm with a .72, I use an auxiliary finder. The Zeiss 25/28mm finder is a dream to use. The view is large and bright; and best of all, the framelines remain straight, so that it is possible to render architectural lines vertical with very good accuracy. It is not a bother to use. I was once opposed to using external finders, but I have gotten over that. I actually like them now. This finder does not come cheap, but if you were to get one, I don't think you'll want to part with it anytime soon! You would have the focusing accuracy of the .72, plus the viewing ease that the 25/28 gives you with those focal lengths--all without needing a 0.58 body.

 

[Hephaestus]

Keep in mind that the Zeiss external finder sells for ~$350 alone, whereas a whole Bessa R4 sells for ~$670. I have not used either the Zeiss finder or the C/V Bessa R4.

Ryan

 

[back alley]

the r4 is great with the smaller cv lenses but with the zm 25 there is some intrusion into the finder.
the zeiss finder is a brilliant piece of gear.

i actually prefer using the r4 with the cv 25 over the zi with zm 25 as i really like the ergonomics of the smaller combo. i carry the r4 with cv 25 most days but use the zeiss kit when i think the slightly better quality might be needed.

 

[john_s]

I use the Zeiss ZM 25f2.8 on a standard m6 with 0.72 viewfinder without the auxiliary finder. It doesn't take long to find out roughly what you get in addition to the 28mm frames. I'm the first to admit that it's somewhat inaccurate, but who expects accuracy from the framelines generally anyway?

 

[stevesurf]

I use the Zeiss ZM 25f2.8 on a standard m6 with 0.72 viewfinder without the auxiliary finder. It doesn't take long to find out roughly what you get in addition to the 28mm frames. I'm the first to admit that it's somewhat inaccurate, but who expects accuracy from the framelines generally anyway?

Hi folks, please forgive the "bump" of an old post, but I am considering either Zeiss 28mm or Zeiss 25mm f/2.8 on a 0.72 M7 for architectural and casual street people photography applications. I don't wear glasses and consider myself pretty accurate with the current 0.72 50mm framelines. I cannot afford an external VF and really want the convenience of switching from 50 to 25.

Does anyone else use this combination with Leica M?

Should I just stick with the 28, or is the 25 of that higher quality that it is worth it?

The lenses I am referencing are:

Biogon T* 2,8/25 ZM
Biogon T* 2,8/28 ZM

Many thanks in advance / Steve

 

[Krosya]

I used to have a ZM 25mm lens and best "in-camera" VF for it for me was in Hexar RF using entire VF frame.