infrequent
Well-known
@maddoc - you are quite right. there are some winners in these dark times. its the natural resources backed economies such as canada, australia that have suffered from the currency devaluation. take a country like iran for instance. their entire budget for the current year was based on the premise of oil being 110 USD. now its hovering around 40 USD. hello sh*t, meet fan.
Last edited:
maddoc
... likes film again.
Japan's economy isn't on the bright site either ... Sony has just yesterday announced that they will cut 8000 jobs worldwide and many of the car manufacturing companies face hard times, too. Unfortunately, the increased strength of the Yen has led to increased prices for goods made in Japan, resulting in a further decrease of sales outside of Japan. Also many companies have drastically cut the annual bonus, leading to a further decrease of sales inside Japan...
Al Kaplan
Veteran
As my mother used to say, "Don't count your chickens before they hatch!"
I filled my tank for $20 today. It was $50 a couple months back.
I filled my tank for $20 today. It was $50 a couple months back.
What's the bet OPEC cuts production and forces prices back up later this month.
OPEC head says markets should brace for 'surprise' announcement.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I realise that there are people out there that don't give a thought to dropping $5000.00 to $10000.00 on a lens even though they're not pros ... just hobby shooters. Leica's obiously aware that they're out there also ... but what happens when they become a dwindling breed. Will Leica start to get serious and stop catering to the exclusivety market ... and start making real cameras again for the serious enthusiasts and not necessarily the filthy rich posers? 
And I'm not insinuating that their marketing is completely based on the wealthy posers but it will head that way if they continue on in this direction!
And I'm not insinuating that their marketing is completely based on the wealthy posers but it will head that way if they continue on in this direction!
Last edited:
thomasw_
Well-known
Holy socks, with this news I am going to have to rush order that 7 grand summilux 21f1,4 to weld to my MDa !!! I don't think I can swing it if the lens goes up 10% to 7700 bucks. Thanks for the HU, guys. Whew, that was close.
larmarv916
Well-known
No matter what Leica's management says..these are nothing but "lame" excuses. I actually watched a repricing of unsold factory inventory at Solms on my last visit. The excuse at the time was the declining dollar...but the repricing to higher levels was passed to all markets. At the moment the Euro is in a major long term correction to the dollar. Where as the Sterling is sliding against the Euro. In reality Iam willing to bet that the dramatic decline in worldwide sales is the real "boogie-man" so that a greater profit per unit sold will somehow.."a myth" will help make up for lack of actual retail sales.
I have seen actual Leica boxes that have been repriced 3 times befor they ever sold...and then below original suggested price. Due to a going out of business situation. In reality what should be happening is that they quit insulting customers with fake discounts. A 300 dollar discount does not even cover the cost of sales tax in california !! So who cares.
Most dealers do not carry little if any Leica invertory. Once a product has been assembled and the internal costs booked the actual cost of the item does not ever change. So when you reprice it is to cover either incurred interest expense from standing unsold inventory. I think that problem is closer to the reason for another unjustified price increase. All the Best..Merry Christmas
I have seen actual Leica boxes that have been repriced 3 times befor they ever sold...and then below original suggested price. Due to a going out of business situation. In reality what should be happening is that they quit insulting customers with fake discounts. A 300 dollar discount does not even cover the cost of sales tax in california !! So who cares.
Most dealers do not carry little if any Leica invertory. Once a product has been assembled and the internal costs booked the actual cost of the item does not ever change. So when you reprice it is to cover either incurred interest expense from standing unsold inventory. I think that problem is closer to the reason for another unjustified price increase. All the Best..Merry Christmas
Goldorak
-
Why only bitch? Maybe the real truth behind Leica's impossibility to offer "real" discounts is because their pricing is what it takes for them, a small company, to simply stay alive and stay profitable. Believe it or not, the profits go to R&D.
Why are Leica such "evil" and demonized? Why should they please you and come out with "real" rebates. Maybe they simply cannot afford to come up with such rebates.
Leica never catered to us, poor people. And yet, here we are bitching at them because they won't listen to our modest needs. I say ENOUGH!
infrequent
Well-known
jon, that is very likely indeed and what i would expect to happen in the very near future. all it has to be some misplaced comment somewhere geo-politically sensitive or a refinery breaks down. i half expected sarkozy's meeting with the dalai lama to do the same! ; ) certainly incited lots of people to protest in china.
but the oil bust has been spectacular indeed. not sure if it rivals the tulip mania but definitely close and far more global.
infrequent
Well-known
they already are! or else how to explain the "proposed" special editions of M8s. it would be one thing if it was some club making a special request, but this is the manufacturer doing so on their own! fondlers are the market share now. before long all leica will have is commemoratives. maybe that's the only way they can move units and survive.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
A bunch of master-rebaters that's what they are
hahaha!
I'd much rather be with a group of rasta-me-baters! ("I and I, Jah lives!")*
*to educate me about rastafarianism, for which I would be grateful, please send your comments in a pm.
And most likely partly deliberate, too. The same tactic brought the Soviet empire to its knees at the end of the 80's.
Though with Ghawar, Burgen, and Cantarell now all in decline, I doubt the price will stay down for too long regardless of what OPEC does. Especially now that new projects are being canned because of ... low oil prices! Ironic really
P.S. Sorry for the OT banter folks. As for me, I have never purchased a new Leica item, and cannot see myself doing so in the future. So, Leica can price their new stuff how they want as far as I'm concerned :angel:
Last edited:
alan davus
Well-known
Shame Leica isn't a huge banking conglomerate or the worlds largest automobile manufacturer. Those jerks screw up big time and then cry crocodile tears for the taxpayer to bail them out. Can't we just chuck a spare 100 million at Leica to help them through these tough times; it's a pittance compared to what some of the other useless a***holes are getting. I'd rather buy a taxpayer subsidised Leica than a taxpayer subsidised gas guzzling Hummer.
Lilserenity
Well-known
I must admit for years I have always resigned myself to the belief that I'd never afford a Leica. And really that's still kind of true although today I'm picking up my 'new' second hand M2 -- which is a user copy but I'm not bothered about that as I intend to use it all the time myself.
I earn a decent enough wage (I can pay my dues and save a little each month) but it's by no means astronomical, and so it's quite likely I will never afford a new Leica lens. Certainly not if I stay in my current job which I wish to for some years to come. (Money's far from everything.)
As such my business goes in the pockets of the likes of Cosina/Voigtlander or the second hand dealers/private sellers where I can afford the item. I guess also I see what even a simple 50mm would cost me from Leica, and what I can get for my money on say the Voigtlander side lens wise (or even the Zeiss ZMs) and immediately I know what I'd choose, not the Leica.
Some of my favourite photos were taken with a £55 cheap as chips, build quality of a dustbin Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II -- so rationally I spend my money elsewhere, and I'm sure a lot of others do too.
Leica has every right to charge what they want, it's a free market and if people can afford it, good for them -- but it's a precarious place to be to perch yourself in the high profits/small audience place of the market.
Especially when very viable alternatives exist from Cosina in the Voigtlander range and the built for Zeiss, Ikon ZM.
Had the M2 I'm picking up not been available, I'd have bought an R3M, simple as that. I know the M2 to be a better camera, but at what cost can the average enthusiast let that be their mantra - I certainly would feel skwiffy taking a £2500 camera on a 150-200mile hike even if it is built like a brick ***t house!
That said, I hope Leica stays in the market, their products are unquestionably great, but very expensive.
I earn a decent enough wage (I can pay my dues and save a little each month) but it's by no means astronomical, and so it's quite likely I will never afford a new Leica lens. Certainly not if I stay in my current job which I wish to for some years to come. (Money's far from everything.)
As such my business goes in the pockets of the likes of Cosina/Voigtlander or the second hand dealers/private sellers where I can afford the item. I guess also I see what even a simple 50mm would cost me from Leica, and what I can get for my money on say the Voigtlander side lens wise (or even the Zeiss ZMs) and immediately I know what I'd choose, not the Leica.
Some of my favourite photos were taken with a £55 cheap as chips, build quality of a dustbin Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II -- so rationally
I spend my money elsewhere, and I'm sure a lot of others do too.Leica has every right to charge what they want, it's a free market and if people can afford it, good for them -- but it's a precarious place to be to perch yourself in the high profits/small audience place of the market.
Especially when very viable alternatives exist from Cosina in the Voigtlander range and the built for Zeiss, Ikon ZM.
Had the M2 I'm picking up not been available, I'd have bought an R3M, simple as that. I know the M2 to be a better camera, but at what cost can the average enthusiast let that be their mantra - I certainly would feel skwiffy taking a £2500 camera on a 150-200mile hike even if it is built like a brick ***t house!
That said, I hope Leica stays in the market, their products are unquestionably great, but very expensive.
gdi
Veteran
Fred Burton
Well-known
"Had the M2 I'm picking up not been available, I'd have bought an R3M, simple as that. I know the M2 to be a better camera..."
I think this is the issue, though. Is the M2 really a "better" camera than a R2? Slap a Summicron on either of them and the photos will be indistinguishable from one another. Will the M2 last longer? Maybe, but then how long will you actually keep the M2. The only reason the M8 isn't in the same situation is that nobody else makes a digital M rangefinder. And isn't likely to. But to say it's a particularly good camera, in general, at its premium price point doesn't seem accurate. There are much better cameras, in general, below it's price point.
But if you must have a digital M mount rangefinder, you really have no choice.
I think this is the issue, though. Is the M2 really a "better" camera than a R2? Slap a Summicron on either of them and the photos will be indistinguishable from one another. Will the M2 last longer? Maybe, but then how long will you actually keep the M2. The only reason the M8 isn't in the same situation is that nobody else makes a digital M rangefinder. And isn't likely to. But to say it's a particularly good camera, in general, at its premium price point doesn't seem accurate. There are much better cameras, in general, below it's price point.
But if you must have a digital M mount rangefinder, you really have no choice.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Sorry to disappoint you but I haven't the faintest idea.
As others have said, they price things according to their need to stay in business.
The only thing I'd say is that Andreas Kaufmann is a multi-millionaire, which most of us are not, and (effectively) owns Leica, which none of us does, so I think I'll let him worry about how to run the company. I'd be interested to see how many of the people who are so free with their advice would tell him to his face that he's running the company wrongly. And I'd be amused at his responses.
Cheers,
R.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Roger,
I know you're not infering that Kaufmann is infalible just because he's a successful multi-millionaire ... you wouldn't be that foolish. However I think there are others who make that assumption when defending Leica's marketing tactics and it surprises me. Like everything in life you're only as good as your last performance ... what was his last performance?
I certainly don't know!
I know you're not infering that Kaufmann is infalible just because he's a successful multi-millionaire ... you wouldn't be that foolish. However I think there are others who make that assumption when defending Leica's marketing tactics and it surprises me. Like everything in life you're only as good as your last performance ... what was his last performance?
I certainly don't know!
Fred Burton
Well-known
Well, the Senators in the US didn't have a problem telling the multimillionaire CEO's of the Big 3 automakers that they are running the company wrong, so why should we hesitate with Leica?
I don't think Kaufmann is running the company wrong. I think he's doing the best he can to maintain the tiny niche he has in the camera business. He is fighting the good fight.
Don Quixote fought against overwhelming odds as well. But, then, Don Quixote was delusional.
I don't think Kaufmann is running the company wrong. I think he's doing the best he can to maintain the tiny niche he has in the camera business. He is fighting the good fight.
Don Quixote fought against overwhelming odds as well. But, then, Don Quixote was delusional.
Lilserenity
Well-known
Short Answer: Yes.
Longer Answer: For what I want it for it is. Notice I said R3 (A or M is here or there) -- the thing is I do love the 35mm aspect which the R3 only has 40mm framelines for (built in) and to sacrifice this would have been a shame. Secondly I want to get a 90mm lens for portraits and the shorter base length would have some impact on this particularly as I want to go for an f/2 90mm for lower light.
As to build quality etc., the Voigtlanders are excellent in the current iteration and I sometimes don't think they get the credit they deserve, however, in handling an M3 vs. an R3(A/M) there is a difference, not world's apart but the M cameras do feel more hefty and sturdy.
One should see that my decision to go with the M2 and state for my needs (should have been clearer on that aspect, sorry) it is a better camera -- but my admiration and respect for Cosina's Voigtlander line is sincere and I hold them in high regard.