Leica price trends

[marcr1230]

I get the feeling from reading initial reviews of the M7 and MP , that prices have increased about 50% or so since these cameras first were produced. The last 6 months have been favorable for the $US vs the Euro and the Canadian dollar. not to start a laugh-fest, but does Leica ever lower prices in recognition of exchange rate fluctuations ?

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Welcome to RFF from a fellow OM user. To answer your question, no, they never lower prices. Ever. There's probably someone in their marketing dept. right now laughing his a-- off at the very idea. LOL

 

[maddoc]

But prices for USED Leicas (cameras and lenses) have gone down in the last 8 month quite a bit. So if it is doesn't have to be new, it is actually a better time to buy now than last summer. 🙂

 

[Al Kaplan]

It's such a limited market that lowering prices wouldn't increase sales enough to compensate. It should be obvious from reading this forum that a very signifcant amount of Leica owners are just that ~ OWNERS! Those of us who actually use and abuse the dang things for taking pictures are the minority.

Figure if I'd bought a brand new Leica M2 in the early 1960's for $200, used it (and a couple of others) to earn a living all these years, and complete with dings, dents, and brassing I can still easily get $500 or more of today's deflated dollars for it. Thats after 16,000 days of use. From that standpoint they're about the cheapest camera you could buy.

The reality these days is that as a money making tool it's very much a niche player in a mostly digital world. The typical purchaser today isn't so much bitching about blowing fifteen grand on a new Leica as he's boasting that he can afford to pay $15,000 and still buy the wife a new BMW and still take a month long European vacation. Whether he uses it in Europe or just fondles it in his office doesn't matter as long as Leica sells cameras.

There are still lots of user bodies and lenses out there for the rest of us to buy, and even if the cosmetics are challenged you can expect to pay a reasonable price and expect to get your cash back should you decide to sell it. Free Leicas!

 

[Tuolumne]

I get the feeling from reading initial reviews of the M7 and MP , that prices have increased about 50% or so since these cameras first were produced. The last 6 months have been favorable for the $US vs the Euro and the Canadian dollar. not to start a laugh-fest, but does Leica ever lower prices in recognition of exchange rate fluctuations ?

They don't lower prices, but they do offer rebates in different countries, apparently tied to exchange rate fluctuations, or so it has been said.

/T

 

[larmarv916]

I'm sure we had this conversation a few months ago..All prices are tied to the FOREX rates between Euro other currency's. That said, I was at Solms in Sept of 07 and watched as all existing inventory was marked up based on unexpected flux in the Euro to USD. However in the last 52 weeks the Euro has dropped by about 37 cents in it's exchange rate !!

So often Leica in the past has tried to play "both ends" toward the middle. Any excuse is used for raising prices. Internal accounting also helps make higher prices a foregone reality. Now...a change to that reality is about to happen and Leica like so many luxury Euro brands is about smash into the hard reality of the world currency war.

The Japanese have already triggered a major historical reversal in the YEN. That is to say Japan has launched a devaluation that will take the YEN back towards levels that were reality in the early 1980's. It will not happen overnight but it is in progress now. What that means to the Euro brands is sheer doom. As they will have to devalue the Euro in order to sell products.

Were talking a process where the Euro-USD and Sterling will come to parity out of sheer need. Why other wise all euro brands will be become even more over priced that all sales will come to a total halt ! Because regardless of the hype from the media....skyrocketing unemployment, higher consumer prices on all luxury goods, create double digit decreasing retail sales.

No sales...means no earnings. So in the end the currency with the lowest value becomes the country who can sell products in a prolonged economic decline. Leica is tied to the Euro and if the Euro does not go down then it's sales in Japan, USA and other major markets will be at ZERO very soon.
Leica could do many things to avoid this fate....will they? I doubt.

the internal culture of the company over the last 50 years is built on idea that Leica make the most expensive camera products in the world. Also the idea that the world economy is growing and expanding and inflation is their ACE in the hole. Not so this time around. The rebates are a insult !!

They do not cover the cost of sales tax in most states. When you realise that the Euro has been declining and the Dollar and Yen rising in value in larger percentages....there has been no excuse for raising prices other than greed.

To put this in perspective..it was only recently the Euro was at 1.60 and then dropped in the last 52 weeks to 1.23. So if Leica was serious about providing "fair" pricing then a new Noctilux would have "dropped" by 37 cents per dollar!! So if your Noctilux was 5000 USD a year ago it would have dropped by an actual 37%..or 1850 USD Of course that did not happen.

during the period from Dec 2002 when the Euro was at parity to the Dollar. Most real professional business managers hedged all payments in US Dollars in the FOREX market. This is a no brainer. This assures also that NO delcine in real payments will make a negative impact on the bottom line. Leica did none of these things. This allows prices to stay stable. This method by the way is why our friends at Porsche have a much more stable price. They use this exact method for payments and all other currency issues.

Now we see many camera dealers going out of business and other holding old Leica stock and trying to sell it for "modern" prices. That is a sure loser.

So in the end all prices will come down for new and used equipment of all brands. As consumer spending is droping so fast..well you already know. So do the math is a 9500 USD Noctilux going to save Leica. NOT ! Is a 5995 USD for a M8.2 going to save Leica...NO.

Iam pounding my sledge hammer on about this as when the music ends there will be no way to sell products through vendors who stopped stocking your products. Zeiss Ikon has a much better chance to see the light at the end of the tunnel. All the Best....Laurance

 

[tom_uk]

As regards new prices, Leica UK ran a promotion from December through to the end of March - 15% rebate on the price of a new lens (with the exception of the latest, mega-expensive lenses lenses from 2008). I have no idea how much business that promotion won, but it was in fact extended - I thing the initial finishing date was end-February. And Leica UK are currently offering a £500 rebate for a new M8 (not M8.2).

As regards s/h, I have a feeling that prices in the UK have hardened a bit in the last year.

 

[yoyo22]

As regards new prices, Leica UK ran a promotion from December through to the end of March - 15% rebate on the price of a new lens (with the exception of the latest, mega-expensive lenses lenses from 2008). I have no idea how much business that promotion won, but it was in fact extended - I thing the initial finishing date was end-February. And Leica UK are currently offering a £500 rebate for a new M8 (not M8.2).

As regards s/h, I have a feeling that prices in the UK have hardened a bit in the last year.

The promotion was prolonged, because Leica had a hard time to satisfy the demand. Due to the sudden "crash" of the pound in December Leica goods became cheap in UK compared to EUR/USD markets - especially with the additional rebate.
I ordered a 50 Lux in UK in December and considering the rebate, I saved around 40% compared to a purchase at my local Leica dealer. The only problem was that Leica was completely surprised by the high demand in UK, so there were delays in the shipment. I've had to wait until the end of March for my lens to be available.
This is one important reason why Leica prolonged the rebate. Since you've had to register the lens/camera in order to qualify for the promotion, they did not want to p*** off all their customers who were waiting for shipment by ending the promo as scheduled.

 

[mojobebop]

I get the feeling from reading initial reviews of the M7 and MP , that prices have increased about 50% or so since these cameras first were produced. The last 6 months have been favorable for the $US vs the Euro and the Canadian dollar. not to start a laugh-fest, but does Leica ever lower prices in recognition of exchange rate fluctuations ?

i was wondering about that myself.
of the reviews i have read recently, ('m7').
the price paid seems to have been approx. $2200.00.
(that was about 6 years ago).
price has doubled since then.

 

[tom_uk]

The promotion was prolonged, because Leica had a hard time to satisfy the demand. Due to the sudden "crash" of the pound in December Leica goods became cheap in UK compared to EUR/USD markets - especially with the additional rebate.
I ordered a 50 Lux in UK in December and considering the rebate, I saved around 40% compared to a purchase at my local Leica dealer. The only problem was that Leica was completely surprised by the high demand in UK, so there were delays in the shipment. I've had to wait until the end of March for my lens to be available.
This is one important reason why Leica prolonged the rebate. Since you've had to register the lens/camera in order to qualify for the promotion, they did not want to p*** off all their customers who were waiting for shipment by ending the promo as scheduled.

Thanks for the info.

Now you've reminded, I do recall my local dealer gleefully telling me in late December that they were taking a lot of on-line orders from Germany; and that they'd been assured by Leica UK that the rebate would be honoured regardless of where the customer lived.

 

[Larry Manuel]

Leica opinions.

Leica opinions.

larmarv916 wrote: "the internal culture of the company over the last 50 years is built on idea that Leica make the most expensive camera products in the world. Also the idea that the world economy is growing and expanding and inflation is their ACE in the hole. Not so this time around. The rebates are a insult !!"

Here's a possibly more charitable view. Having made a 2-element telescope objective lens from raw glass discs, I am familiar with some of the difficulties of fabricating a good optic.

My view: Leica internal culture seems to built on the philosophy that Leica will offer very, very good lenses and cameras. It is concomittant to this that they may/will also be the very expensive.

If various people feel "Leica's mother wears army boots", I'd much rather read that simple statement than various couched statements implying that.

 

[ChrisLivsey]

As regards s/h, I have a feeling that prices in the UK have hardened a bit in the last year.

I would agree with that and add that it may be due to the smaller number coming to to the market. I've not seen as few at Ffordes for I can't remember when.

 

[Roger Hicks]

You can make something down to a price, or you can make it up to a standard. The latter costs more, especially for limited-production niche-market products. If you'd rather have a Nikon DSLR than a Leica, go buy a Nikon DSLR.

The average exchange rate over the last year or so has been about $1.42 to the euro, with highs (less than a day each) of just over $1.60 and a low of just over $1.23. As I wrote this it was about $1.32.

Look at it from Leica's point of view. You raise prices when you HAVE to, or you will lose money on every camera you sell. Losing money on every unit is not intelligent business practice. You daren't lower prices, partly because exchange rates can go against you again and party because there will be a howl of "This PROVES Leicas were over-priced."

Note also that emerging with high income inequalities -- e.g. India, China, Eastern Europe -- are always good markets for high-end products. The days when the USA could dictate prices as the biggest and most important market are over; just as the days when the UK could do so are even longer over.

Of course there are always rebates (short term/revocable)...

Tashi delek,

R.

 

[35mmdelux]

The new fast lenses, such as the 21mm Summilux ASPH, catapults Leica to the top of the heap, again.