RdEoSg
Well-known
You think that's bad! I sent my camera to a repair place here in California to have service done on. It needed a CLA and I wanted the rangefinder upgraded to be more flare resistant.
The part came in the Friday before labor day. FIVE MONTHS it took leica to get the repair shop the part. They sent them one in July but it was defective. Now I realize that as I have an original M6 with a .85 finder, it is a rare item, though I'm not sure that has anything to do with the part I needed but anyways, one would think that if they have to do a production run and I have to wait for a couple months for it that one, they would check that it wasn't defective before sending out and two, that if it is defective, they would have extra's from the run laying around and could send it out immediately, not take two more months to make more!
I called Leica NJ and talked to the parts department about it. They had no idea that someone could upgrade a finder and it took me 5 minutes to explain to the guy what an M6 was..... Talk about great service.
Oh and I forgot to mention Leica NJ was going to have someone with more knowledge call me back with an answer... never got a call.
The part came in the Friday before labor day. FIVE MONTHS it took leica to get the repair shop the part. They sent them one in July but it was defective. Now I realize that as I have an original M6 with a .85 finder, it is a rare item, though I'm not sure that has anything to do with the part I needed but anyways, one would think that if they have to do a production run and I have to wait for a couple months for it that one, they would check that it wasn't defective before sending out and two, that if it is defective, they would have extra's from the run laying around and could send it out immediately, not take two more months to make more!
I called Leica NJ and talked to the parts department about it. They had no idea that someone could upgrade a finder and it took me 5 minutes to explain to the guy what an M6 was..... Talk about great service.
Oh and I forgot to mention Leica NJ was going to have someone with more knowledge call me back with an answer... never got a call.
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x-ray
Veteran
More interesting information. A week before I sent my MP to Leica I sent my asph Summilix 50 to DAG for focusing problems. It would'nt focus to infinity and was not focusing properly at any distance at 1.4. Don got back today to tell me he can't fix it. He thought the problem was in manufacturing and the issue had existed from the time it was made.
Here are the two emails from Don:
Don,
this lens of yours is so limited as far as adjustments go- There's a floating lens group in the rear that's connected to the focusing cam. Adjusting the front main element group will also shift the diaphram indexing system that is not adjustable so any adjustment of that will cause the diaphram system to no longer be set at 12:00 & there's no way to adjust the focusing dial. And to make matters worse, the mechanical focus that the focusing cam controls does not get to infinity & the optical focus goes beyond infinity so with the limited adjustments (actually, I see only one way to adjust the focus) I see no way to adjust the mechanical focus further to infinity & the optical focus to focus closer. Sorry to say that I think I'll have to send the lens back to you unrepaired. Right now the lens is back focusing. Let me know if you have any thoughts on this, otherwise I can send it out UPS today,
regards,
Don
DAG Camera repair
2128 Vintage Dr
Oregon, Wi 53575
and
Don,
I can't see anything that would have caused this to happen. My guess is that it was always like this. I'll send it back to you,
regards,
Don
DAG
So much for Leica QC. I'll give Leica NJ a call Monday and see what can be done otherwise it gets sold at a bargain and I buy a CV Nokton again to go with my Planar. I'm affraid I'm about over the leica thing atleast with current equipment. The performance of the Nokton is very close to the asph so if I buy another Nokton I can throw it in the trash if it breaks compared to the cost of leica lenses and repairs.
Here are the two emails from Don:
Don,
this lens of yours is so limited as far as adjustments go- There's a floating lens group in the rear that's connected to the focusing cam. Adjusting the front main element group will also shift the diaphram indexing system that is not adjustable so any adjustment of that will cause the diaphram system to no longer be set at 12:00 & there's no way to adjust the focusing dial. And to make matters worse, the mechanical focus that the focusing cam controls does not get to infinity & the optical focus goes beyond infinity so with the limited adjustments (actually, I see only one way to adjust the focus) I see no way to adjust the mechanical focus further to infinity & the optical focus to focus closer. Sorry to say that I think I'll have to send the lens back to you unrepaired. Right now the lens is back focusing. Let me know if you have any thoughts on this, otherwise I can send it out UPS today,
regards,
Don
DAG Camera repair
2128 Vintage Dr
Oregon, Wi 53575
and
Don,
I can't see anything that would have caused this to happen. My guess is that it was always like this. I'll send it back to you,
regards,
Don
DAG
So much for Leica QC. I'll give Leica NJ a call Monday and see what can be done otherwise it gets sold at a bargain and I buy a CV Nokton again to go with my Planar. I'm affraid I'm about over the leica thing atleast with current equipment. The performance of the Nokton is very close to the asph so if I buy another Nokton I can throw it in the trash if it breaks compared to the cost of leica lenses and repairs.
peter_n
Veteran
I think you should send it back to Leica and ask for a new one. They would probably replace a lens with a severe manufacturing defect like this.
x-ray
Veteran
peter_n said:
Unfortunately it's not under warranty. I'm going to give them a call monday and talk to the PR person. I was going to do this anyway to thank them for moving the MP repair up and to get on the priority list. Looks like I need it sooner than I thought.
summilux
Well-known
dear x-ray: i have two 50 asph lux, and one of friend also has one, who used to complain that the lens is not sharp wide open. now i have M8 i can test the lens, it is definitely back focused. i suspect it is a manufacturing defect. i did a bit of bracket focusing, when you can bring the lens in focus, it is simply stunning. i think you and i have to send it back to solms to see what they can do. i see steve lee has also the same lens on his M8 when doing his interview in LFI 1/2007, maybe we should drop him an email asking him whether his also has back focus problem.
btw, i had the nokton 50/1.5 a while ago too, it is sharp but the shadow details are muddy.
btw, i had the nokton 50/1.5 a while ago too, it is sharp but the shadow details are muddy.
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x-ray
Veteran
summilux said:
Thanks Summilux. This migh be something we need to start another thread on and see if we can address this with Leica as a group. Deffective manufacturing and total lack of testing before leaving the factori is unexcusable.
Who would like to start the new thread?
peter_n
Veteran
I would think that the lens being defective from day 1 is sufficient grounds for replacement. If you ask then maybe they will want to examine the lens and you never know. If you don't ask then maybe you will have to chuck the lens and take the loss. No harm in asking...x-ray said:
I have a 24/2.8 I am sending to Leica for a CLA. Earlier versions of this lens had a known problem with the anodized black finish flaking off and my lens looks really terrible. While I don't don't care personally what it looks like I would never be able to sell it in this condition even though optically it is perfect. I'm going to ask Leica NJ very nicely to replace the offending parts FOC even though the lens is no longer under warranty.
x-ray
Veteran
I'm going to cal NJ to thank them for moving my MP service up and discuss the summilux problem. I'll have it back form DAG Monday and ship it to NJ. Hopefully they will respond as I hope. I would even be happy with a 50/50 deal or no parts and only charge labor. I feel certain it can be fixed but it might involve a new focusing mount which could be quite expensive.
davidzapr
Member
I had sent my black MP bought in 2005 back to Leica NJ 2 months ago and just got a call from them asking if it was ok to strip the leather off it to do the repair(sticky shutter release). I was astonished that they had not already finished it! Anyhow, back to cameraleather.com for another leather covering...at my expense of course. Seriously, I think ALL the really great Leica techs are backlogged...My M5 has been at DAG for 3 months now, and my CL has been there for 6 weeks. My theory is that a lot of folks got into some form of digital, and sent a lot of their Leica M gear out for overdue Cla's.
TJV
Well-known
After six years of working in the industry, both shooting and selling pro equipment, I can say that Canon's service isn't much better. Not only can they not fix some pro lenses that are less than 7 years old, their repair dept has lost, completly lost, clients camera's and lenses, and consistantly take over two months for seemingly simple repair jobs. And this is their streamlined PRO service! Having said this, I've had the misfortune of having to wait 7 months for a Leica lens to be repaired and have been on the Nocti waiting list for 8 months...
6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
Lets all jump ship and buy new Nikon equipment...
6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
Lets all jump ship and buy new Nikon equipment...
x-ray
Veteran
TJV said:
I used Nikons for almost as long as I've used leicas and in the past 6 years or so I've used Canon digital. I started my digital work with the original D1 Nikon and then the D1x. I was a member of NPS for many years from my film days and had no complaints at all with the service on my film equipment. I think the only repairs on Nikons in thirty years was a motor drive gear in one of my F2 motors had to be replaced and a 35mm f2 aperture had to be fixed in my AF 35. /when the digital age came around I think NPS was overwhelmed and service became poor and took weeks and often wasn't done correctly. I then switched to Canons with the 1D and 1Ds and now 1DsII's. I'm now a CPS member and have only had a couple of repairs during this time. One non L lens requires a new processing chip, one lens had a mechanical problem and a few of my enses and my bodies have been in for recalibration of focus. All siiues with the exception of one were delt with in three days inclusing fedex shipping both ways. The other body repair took a week and Canon shipped a loaner for the duration of the repair. All of this at no charge. I've never ha d aproblem with poor workmanship in any of my equipment or repairs and have been totally satisified with the speed and quality of service. Leica on the other hand has failed on both counts. My Canon and Nikon gear has been driven hard. It's been used much harder than my leicas of recent years. Now I have one lens that was manufactured wrong and had 3 others that failed early in their life. Also my new MP had shutter capping issues and should be back tomorrow and ISO dial wasn't properly attached at the factory. This doesn't sound like a company that produces quality products and has spuperior QC. Depending on how leica handles things tomorrow will determing whether i continue to buy and use leica lenses and bodies. I'm seriously thinking I will sell the summilux with a statement of the problems and sell it for a good price and take my losses and buy another Nokton. At this point I'm sick that I bought the asph summilux and sold my nokton 50. I'm even to the point of selling all of my current Leica lenses and replacing them with Zeiss and CV. Last night I pulled a few rolls of negs shot with my Nokton. Looking at them I don't know why I sold the Nokton other than thinking the summilux would deliver superior results. Well guess what, the summilux doesn't. Comparing summiulux and nokton negs convinced me there's virtually no difference from f2 down and very slightly any difference at max aperture. For the price of leica equipment I can afford to toss Zeiss and CV equipment in the trash if it fails and still come out ahead. If you think I'm disappointed in leicas quality you're right.
amateriat
We're all light!
Don: Ouch...this brings back some memories for me.
- Way, way back, when I was still shooting with Canon F-1 SLRs, my Motor Drive MF suddenly stopped woeking altogether. I was Joe Schmoe, not Joe Pro, but I thought I'd take a trip to Canon's Third Avenue service center (mid-late 70s...damn, those WERE the days, my friends...). There was scarcely a a line to wait in. The tech took the drive, had me wait about fifteen minutes, and I was out of there with a working motor, no charge.
- Some years later, shortly after switched to Pentax, both my new LX bodies were frequently locking up on me, and had me hopping on the LIRR to Pentax' Westbury, LI service center, where the techs really did sweat bullets to get the caemras working in short order. And, again, even though I was shooting paying gigs from time to time, I was not a full-time, card-carrying pro. But I got the pro tretment nonetheless. (The problem was later traced to a manufacturing defect in early-production bodies, but by the time that info trickled down to me I had sold off my system in distress for a Nikon F3-based system. But I gave Pentax major props for trying.)
- Close to five years ago, one of my Hexar RFs had something of an electronic flame-out. A quick call to Konica got me a service ticket, and I FedEx'd the body off the next day to NJ. THey turned the repair around in exactly one week; other than some confusion about warranty coverage (All my Konica gear was under a three-year warranty), the service was courteous, and fast. And, again, I'm still not a full-time pro.
Somebody tell me again why we're so much better-off now?
- Barrett
- Way, way back, when I was still shooting with Canon F-1 SLRs, my Motor Drive MF suddenly stopped woeking altogether. I was Joe Schmoe, not Joe Pro, but I thought I'd take a trip to Canon's Third Avenue service center (mid-late 70s...damn, those WERE the days, my friends...). There was scarcely a a line to wait in. The tech took the drive, had me wait about fifteen minutes, and I was out of there with a working motor, no charge.
- Some years later, shortly after switched to Pentax, both my new LX bodies were frequently locking up on me, and had me hopping on the LIRR to Pentax' Westbury, LI service center, where the techs really did sweat bullets to get the caemras working in short order. And, again, even though I was shooting paying gigs from time to time, I was not a full-time, card-carrying pro. But I got the pro tretment nonetheless. (The problem was later traced to a manufacturing defect in early-production bodies, but by the time that info trickled down to me I had sold off my system in distress for a Nikon F3-based system. But I gave Pentax major props for trying.)
- Close to five years ago, one of my Hexar RFs had something of an electronic flame-out. A quick call to Konica got me a service ticket, and I FedEx'd the body off the next day to NJ. THey turned the repair around in exactly one week; other than some confusion about warranty coverage (All my Konica gear was under a three-year warranty), the service was courteous, and fast. And, again, I'm still not a full-time pro.
Somebody tell me again why we're so much better-off now?
- Barrett
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x-ray
Veteran
Barrett:
I remember back in the 60's when I first got into leica and leica had reps that traveled their region regularly. Mr Kippert was our rep and had been a factory tech in the 50's. When he came into town you could take your camera to him for minor adjustments and repairs at no charge. He would carry test gear and tools and do shutter speed and RF adjustments plus cleaning in the RF and inner body and any other minor adjustmens he felt was needed.
Those were the days!
I remember back in the 60's when I first got into leica and leica had reps that traveled their region regularly. Mr Kippert was our rep and had been a factory tech in the 50's. When he came into town you could take your camera to him for minor adjustments and repairs at no charge. He would carry test gear and tools and do shutter speed and RF adjustments plus cleaning in the RF and inner body and any other minor adjustmens he felt was needed.
Those were the days!