Leica Sensor Replacement Program

[Calzone]

I don't think anyone here at RFF is dishonest or biased. The other side....

Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Leica tossing in defective sensors under this "Goodwill" before September 2015 and Monochrome not defective sensor was not even ready by this time?

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249569-leica-m9-corrosion-sensor-replacement-starts-now/

Don't you think it is common sense to wait and see if second round is actually working one, after first round with defective sensors failure? And do you think it was honest to cut under short notice by August 2017 started in September 2015 program?

Are you blaming users for the rush to send cameras after all of this mess which lasted for years, but was cut short once they find the solution?

KoFe,

I'm glad that you brought up this fact and added some clarity through the link and brought up a timeline of when the opportunity to get a sensor replacement that corrected the corrosion problem was beginning to be offered. I think the initial announcement might of been in August of 2015, and it makes sense that Leica's time frame of the cut-off deadline likely was two years from that anniversary.

It is true that Leica did replace sensors with a replacement sensor that could be spun as a "Time Bomb" earlier/previously. This definitely muddled things up a created problems and conflicts for many. In many ways this exacerbated the situation.

I am saying why did not many act after September 2015 like I did (December 2015 in my case) and send in their cameras at that time? I am also saying that perhaps in August 2015 maybe Leica began offering replacement sensors that were upgraded to correct the corrosion problem. And now that a timeline is somewhat established people really had two full years to send in their cameras.

I'm also suggesting that even if Leica gave a year's notice before the deadline that this unavoidable logjam and delays likely still would have happened because of human nature.

I will even say that I waited, procrastinated, and gambled.

Cal

 

[Emile de Leon]

Leica workers..
https://media.tenor.com/images/0860d3f017deea3a796f4464677376ba/tenor.gif

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Cal,
I think it is personal choice and else. You describing it as gambling not to send in.
But I'm sure for many it was on exactly opposite side.

Leica never promised to kill this "Goodwill" until short notice. What was happening before this, people were waiting if second turn around was really working and no "it is bad again" will be returned.

Keep in mind some already has sensor replaced not just once.

Think about it as of new camera with new FW. Many people like me would never buy it.
Because these days QA and QC is pushed on the customer. First sensor was fail. And many people were just waiting if second one wasn't the same.
No procrastination no gamble, just waiting for year or even more to see if second round will not came faulty.

 

[Beemermark]

That info is readily available. I believe the offer still stands: https://www.reddotforum.com/content...de-options-ccd-sensor-corrosion-q-sl-choices/

Thanks, it was what I was afraid of. I retired last year and $4k is my monthly income. So what do I do with an M9 with a sensor just starting to corrode? And I mean that literally. Shoot until I can't correct the blemishes any more, by which time Leica has probably dropped any replacements. Try selling for some ridiculously low price? What would you offer for an M9 with a bad sensor? I can't blame Leica that much but after all these decades I think we'll be parting ways.

 

[Beemermark]

I don't think anyone here at RFF is dishonest or biased. The other side....

Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Leica tossing in defective sensors under this "Goodwill" before September 2015 and Monochrome not defective sensor was not even ready by this time?

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249569-leica-m9-corrosion-sensor-replacement-starts-now/

Don't you think it is common sense to wait and see if second round is actually working one, after first round with defective sensors failure? And do you think it was honest to cut under short notice by August 2017 started in September 2015 program?

Are you blaming users for the rush to send cameras after all of this mess which lasted for years, but was cut short once they find the solution?

When the problem and then the cut off was announced I contacted NJ and was told you had to have corrosion before they would replace it. So even IF you didn't have it, but they knew you would have it, they wouldn't replace it. I wasn't sure, I should have sent it in and let them tell me no.

It's like any other recall in the US. We know there is a problem and we will fix it. But Leica stated we know there is a problem but we will only fix it before a certain time line, basically saying our digital camera are only good for a few years. For a $8000 camera I sort of expected more.

 

[ptpdprinter]

I think the cost to repair for the time being is circa $1,000. You might want to wait until the backlog is cleared before you send it in, but don't wait too long or Leica will raise the price or discontinue sensor replacements all together. Using the healing brush in Lightroom is also in an option. The M9 was discontinued in at the end of 2012 after all. Good money after bad?

 

[jszokoli]

I don't think I can remember anyone saying that they sent their camera in and it was refused for sensor replacement. I know on my Monochrom I did not see anything that I would have thought was corrosion. Leica replaced that sensor. My M-E looked a little affected by corrosion and that was replaced as well.

As far as a warning, here at RFF Cal did shout it from the rooftop when he heard about the deadline for free sensor replacement.

If I had to guess why Leica is now clearing the backlog in NJ by sending cameras to Germany, I'd say it's pressure on sites like RFF and the embarrassment of these ultra long turn around times. I can't imagine that Leica Germany is happy with what happened in NJ.

Joe

 

[raid]

I have seen someone post about Leica informing him that his M9 had a sensor that was not corroded.

 

[Alex1416]

I'm so sorry to read the horror stories from everyone here. I must have been incredibly lucky, or they lied to me at Leica NJ.

I got an M9 back in May. The very next day the news came out that Leica would stop doing the service for free after August. So i checked my camera and saw the corrosion. Only enjoyed the camera for about a week and sent it to NJ. I was told that the wait would be around 6 months since the announcement created a flood of cameras for them. But to my surprise, a month later i got the email that the camera was ready to be sent back. I got it back and saw that the corrosion was fixed. The paperwork i got back with the camera only said "CIRCUIT M9 REV 4+5". I emailed them just to confirm that the wording meant sensor replacement and they said it was. That they got a new batch of sensors and got to it right away.
However after going through the mess, i decided to sell my M9 a month later and upgraded to the 240. I have been happy ever since with my 240 for digital and my trusty film cameras.

 

[raid]

Your case may be unique and you are lucky indeed.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

...

It's like any other recall in the US. We know there is a problem and we will fix it. But Leica stated we know there is a problem but we will only fix it before a certain time line, basically saying our digital camera are only good for a few years. For a $8000 camera I sort of expected more.

Canon was preventably re-fixing mirror in 5D, for many years and for free.

I think, Leica Camera AG needs some help to realize what they are wrong doing. Like case opened in the court.

 

[Huss]

The really damning thing is that Leica continued to sell the M-E (and possibly M9) after they knew the sensor design in it was defective and would corrode.
That is dishonest.

 

[raid]

VW kept on selling Diesel models even though the company knew from the start about the software trick. Now we know that several car companies in Germany did the same and with a mutual understanding between them.

 

[Huss]

VW kept on selling Diesel models even though the company knew from the start about the software trick. Now we know that several car companies in Germany did the same and with a mutual understanding between them.

And they were fined $billions.

I'm not saying Leica should get that kind of punishment, but what they have done could get them in serious financial trouble if someone decided to lawyer up with a class action suit.

 

[raid]

If my M9 was really repaired in February, would mail service to Florida take 3 weeks? Could my M9 have ended up in Germany for repair?

 

[rfaspen]

raid, I fear your M9 is with my M9 and probably just arriving in Germany this week.

Maybe the German repair facility will finish them quickly?


I think its good to have the M240 while the M9 is off on vacation. Like you, I have been using an M240 as well.

FWIW, I have been pretty happy using the M240. Its a different feeling than the M9. It has some things better and some things worse than the M9.

The M9 is thinner and lighter than the M240. Its so much nicer to hold, especially for long periods of time.

The M9 used to give images with a different character than the M240. Not necessarily better, but different. Many people talk about the color in the M9 with the CCD sensor... maybe that's the quality I see.

The M240 has "flatter" looking images out of the camera (BTW, I always do DNG "raw" files, whether M9 or M240 or ??). After small adjustments in Lightroom, I think the M240 images seem a little more "resolute" than M9 images. Consequently, I think the M240 images print better at larger sizes (e.g., 16x20").

The M240 has Live View and the accomodation for an EVF. This is actually the main advantage of the M240 over the M9. I have been able to use adapters to attach some of my Olympus OM and Nikon F lenses to the M240 to achieve some images I wouldn't otherwise be able to get with RF lenses. Mostly macro and close-up images.

Lately I've noticed that all my images with the M240 are overexposed. At least all the images made using the aperture priority (A) setting. Its a new thing I haven't noticed before. I checked exposure compensation and metering options in the menu. Everything is as I typically have it: Classic metering, 0 Exposure Comp. I hope its not a malfunction in my only working digital M camera...

 

[Huss]

Lately I've noticed that all my images with the M240 are overexposed. At least all the images made using the aperture priority (A) setting. Its a new thing I haven't noticed before. I checked exposure compensation and metering options in the menu. Everything is as I typically have it: Classic metering, 0 Exposure Comp. I hope its not a malfunction in my only working digital M camera...

Reset your camera.

 

[rfaspen]

I am saying why did not many act after September 2015 like I did (December 2015 in my case) and send in their cameras at that time? I am also saying that perhaps in August 2015 maybe Leica began offering replacement sensors that were upgraded to correct the corrosion problem. And now that a timeline is somewhat established people really had two full years to send in their cameras.

I'm also suggesting that even if Leica gave a year's notice before the deadline that this unavoidable logjam and delays likely still would have happened because of human nature.

I will even say that I waited, procrastinated, and gambled.

Cal

I suspect that many didn't send their camera in because you had to have a corroding sensor before Leica would do the replacement.

We have heard from fellow RFF members who tried to be proactive but had their cameras returned without a new sensor because corrosion was not found. The sensor was cleaned though.

I just find it odd to think that some of us somehow didn't want to take advantage of the sensor replacement when we were fully expecting the eventual corrosion of the sensor AND the eventual end of the goodwill program.

I did not procrastinate, but I definitely gambled.

 

[rfaspen]

Reset your camera.

Couldn't hurt. I'll give that a try.

 

[robert blu]

If my M9 was really repaired in February, would mail service to Florida take 3 weeks? Could my M9 have ended up in Germany for repair?

Not my case but from what I read what I feel it's disturbing (beside the longtime for replacement) is the lack of clear informations, which a company like Leica should give without problems.

i was lucky that when on the fence to buy a pre owned ME I decided to go for the m10!

robert